Curtis Flowers | 60 Minutes Archive

60 Minutes has covered a lot of stories 60 Minutes has covered a lot of stories about flaws in our criminal justice about flaws in our criminal justice about flaws in our criminal justice system over the years, but we'd never system over the years, but we'd never system over the years, but we'd never heard anything like the case against heard anything like the case against heard anything like the case against Curtis Flowers. Curtis Flowers. Curtis Flowers. Flowers, a black man from Mississippi, Flowers, a black man from Mississippi, Flowers, a black man from Mississippi, was tried six times for the same crime was tried six times for the same crime was tried six times for the same crime by the same prosecutor. by the same prosecutor. by the same prosecutor. He might still be on death row if not He might still be on death row if not He might still be on death row if not for the work of a team of reporters from for the work of a team of reporters from for the work of a team of reporters from an investigative podcast. an investigative podcast. an investigative podcast. Tonight, you will hear from Curtis Tonight, you will hear from Curtis Tonight, you will hear from Curtis Flowers, the reporters who helped free Flowers, the reporters who helped free Flowers, the reporters who helped free him, and the prosecutor who relentlessly him, and the prosecutor who relentlessly him, and the prosecutor who relentlessly pursued him for more than two decades. pursued him for more than two decades. pursued him for more than two decades. It began in Winona, Mississippi, on a It began in Winona, Mississippi, on a It began in Winona, Mississippi, on a July morning in 1996. July morning in 1996. July morning in 1996. Shortly after Tardy Furniture opened for Shortly after Tardy Furniture opened for Shortly after Tardy Furniture opened for the day, the store's owner, bookkeeper, the day, the store's owner, bookkeeper, the day, the store's owner, bookkeeper, delivery man, and a 16-year-old were delivery man, and a 16-year-old were delivery man, and a 16-year-old were shot in the head execution style. No one shot in the head execution style. No one shot in the head execution style. No one saw it happen. saw it happen. saw it happen. >> When you heard about the crime and the >> When you heard about the crime and the >> When you heard about the crime and the way they were murdered, what was your way they were murdered, what was your way they were murdered, what was your reaction? reaction? reaction? >> Well, my heart dropped. >> Well, my heart dropped. >> Well, my heart dropped. The The first thing, you know, I I felt The The first thing, you know, I I felt The The first thing, you know, I I felt sorry for them. Then I thought, "I could sorry for them. Then I thought, "I could sorry for them. Then I thought, "I could have been there."

have been there." have been there." >> Curtis Flowers had worked at Tardy that >> Curtis Flowers had worked at Tardy that >> Curtis Flowers had worked at Tardy that summer for 3 days delivering and fixing summer for 3 days delivering and fixing summer for 3 days delivering and fixing furniture, but he was let go after he furniture, but he was let go after he furniture, but he was let go after he stopped showing up. Almost immediately stopped showing up. Almost immediately stopped showing up. Almost immediately after the murders, some victims' after the murders, some victims' after the murders, some victims' families suspected Flowers. The police families suspected Flowers. The police families suspected Flowers. The police questioned him but made no arrest. questioned him but made no arrest. questioned him but made no arrest. Months passed. Flowers moved to Texas to Months passed. Flowers moved to Texas to Months passed. Flowers moved to Texas to live with his sister. live with his sister. live with his sister. >> And there's a knock at the door. >> And there's a knock at the door. >> And there's a knock at the door. >> And I answered it. And next thing you >> And I answered it. And next thing you >> And I answered it. And next thing you know, I was all against the wall, being know, I was all against the wall, being know, I was all against the wall, being handcuffed. handcuffed. handcuffed. And he explained to me that we just have And he explained to me that we just have And he explained to me that we just have a warrant for your arrest back in a warrant for your arrest back in a warrant for your arrest back in Mississippi. I said, "For what?" Mississippi. I said, "For what?" Mississippi. I said, "For what?" And he said, "Four counts of capital And he said, "Four counts of capital And he said, "Four counts of capital murder." Yeah, I said, "Me? Are you sure murder." Yeah, I said, "Me? Are you sure murder." Yeah, I said, "Me? Are you sure you got the right guy?" >> Flowers had no criminal record and was >> Flowers had no criminal record and was more likely to be on stage with a gospel more likely to be on stage with a gospel more likely to be on stage with a gospel group than in handcuffs. group than in handcuffs. group than in handcuffs. There was no murder weapon, no DNA or There was no murder weapon, no DNA or There was no murder weapon, no DNA or fingerprints linking him to the crime. fingerprints linking him to the crime. fingerprints linking him to the crime. But it took an all-white jury just an But it took an all-white jury just an But it took an all-white jury just an hour to deliberate and convict him.

hour to deliberate and convict him. hour to deliberate and convict him. At age 27, Curtis Flowers was sentenced At age 27, Curtis Flowers was sentenced At age 27, Curtis Flowers was sentenced to death to death to death and put in the Mississippi State and put in the Mississippi State and put in the Mississippi State Penitentiary, known as Parchman Prison. Penitentiary, known as Parchman Prison. Penitentiary, known as Parchman Prison. >> Were you scared? >> Were you scared? >> Were you scared? >> Oh, yes. >> Oh, yes. >> Oh, yes. >> What's Parchman like? >> What's Parchman like? >> What's Parchman like? >> The worstest thing you ever dreamed >> The worstest thing you ever dreamed >> The worstest thing you ever dreamed about. about. about. Yeah, like a a nightmare. Yeah, like a a nightmare. Yeah, like a a nightmare. Cuz, you know, you hear all kinds of Cuz, you know, you hear all kinds of Cuz, you know, you hear all kinds of noise at night, you know, noise at night, you know, noise at night, you know, uh inmates who have just snapped, some uh inmates who have just snapped, some uh inmates who have just snapped, some who have lost it. They act up all night. who have lost it. They act up all night. who have lost it. They act up all night. >> And you were sitting on death row. I >> And you were sitting on death row. I >> And you were sitting on death row. I imagine other death row inmates were imagine other death row inmates were imagine other death row inmates were being executed. being executed. being executed. >> Yes, and that that was nerve-wracking >> Yes, and that that was nerve-wracking >> Yes, and that that was nerve-wracking itself. itself. itself. >> His conviction was appealed and >> His conviction was appealed and >> His conviction was appealed and overturned, but there would be five more overturned, but there would be five more overturned, but there would be five more trials for Curtis Flowers for the same trials for Curtis Flowers for the same trials for Curtis Flowers for the same crime by the same prosecutor. crime by the same prosecutor. crime by the same prosecutor. >> How can a person be tried for the same >> How can a person be tried for the same >> How can a person be tried for the same crime six times? crime six times? crime six times? >> This case is unprecedented in the >> This case is unprecedented in the >> This case is unprecedented in the history of the American legal system. history of the American legal system. history of the American legal system. >> Attorney Rob McDuff of the Mississippi >> Attorney Rob McDuff of the Mississippi >> Attorney Rob McDuff of the Mississippi Center for Justice joined Curtis Center for Justice joined Curtis Center for Justice joined Curtis Flowers' legal team in 2019.

Flowers' legal team in 2019. Flowers' legal team in 2019. In the first three trials, Flowers was In the first three trials, Flowers was In the first three trials, Flowers was found guilty, but each conviction was found guilty, but each conviction was found guilty, but each conviction was overturned for prosecutorial misconduct. overturned for prosecutorial misconduct. overturned for prosecutorial misconduct. >> And when we talk about prosecutorial >> And when we talk about prosecutorial >> And when we talk about prosecutorial misconduct, were these simple missteps misconduct, were these simple missteps misconduct, were these simple missteps or was it something bigger going on or was it something bigger going on or was it something bigger going on here? here? here? >> these convictions were reversed because >> these convictions were reversed because >> these convictions were reversed because of the prosecutor's misrepresentation of of the prosecutor's misrepresentation of of the prosecutor's misrepresentation of the evidence to the jury the evidence to the jury the evidence to the jury and because of his discrimination in the and because of his discrimination in the and because of his discrimination in the in selection of the jury. in selection of the jury. in selection of the jury. >> But the same prosecutor goes after >> But the same prosecutor goes after >> But the same prosecutor goes after Curtis Flowers again, time after time. Curtis Flowers again, time after time. Curtis Flowers again, time after time. There's nothing in our system that stops There's nothing in our system that stops There's nothing in our system that stops that from happening? that from happening? that from happening? >> Unfortunately, there is not. This >> Unfortunately, there is not. This >> Unfortunately, there is not. This prosecutor was like Captain Ahab hunting prosecutor was like Captain Ahab hunting prosecutor was like Captain Ahab hunting the whale. the whale. the whale. >> The prosecutor was District Attorney >> The prosecutor was District Attorney >> The prosecutor was District Attorney Doug Evans, who even after hung juries Doug Evans, who even after hung juries Doug Evans, who even after hung juries in trials four and five kept going. in trials four and five kept going. in trials four and five kept going. In 2010, Evans finally got a conviction In 2010, Evans finally got a conviction In 2010, Evans finally got a conviction to stick in trial six. to stick in trial six. to stick in trial six. Flowers returned to death row. Flowers returned to death row. Flowers returned to death row. Then, an email changed his fortunes.

Then, an email changed his fortunes. Then, an email changed his fortunes. >> It's been more than [music] 3 years >> It's been more than [music] 3 years >> It's been more than [music] 3 years since I got an email from a woman since I got an email from a woman since I got an email from a woman telling me about a man named Curtis telling me about a man named Curtis telling me about a man named Curtis Flowers. Flowers. Flowers. >> Madeleine Baran is the lead reporter for >> Madeleine Baran is the lead reporter for >> Madeleine Baran is the lead reporter for American Public Media's podcast in the American Public Media's podcast in the American Public Media's podcast in the Dark. Samara Freemark is the podcast Dark. Samara Freemark is the podcast Dark. Samara Freemark is the podcast managing producer. managing producer. managing producer. >> Right away, it was like, is this >> Right away, it was like, is this >> Right away, it was like, is this possible that someone would be tried six possible that someone would be tried six possible that someone would be tried six times? times? times? >> To investigate how that [music] >> To investigate how that [music] >> To investigate how that [music] happened, the In the Dark team descended happened, the In the Dark team descended happened, the In the Dark team descended on Winona, a town of 5,000. on Winona, a town of 5,000. on Winona, a town of 5,000. Most of downtown, like Tardy Furniture, Most of downtown, like Tardy Furniture, Most of downtown, like Tardy Furniture, had faded away. had faded away. had faded away. The podcast reporters planned to stay a The podcast reporters planned to stay a The podcast reporters planned to stay a few months. They stayed a year. Knocking few months. They stayed a year. Knocking few months. They stayed a year. Knocking on doors and interviewing hundreds of on doors and interviewing hundreds of on doors and interviewing hundreds of people. people. people. >> Was there anything that anybody said >> Was there anything that anybody said >> Was there anything that anybody said early on that made you think, "Oh, well, early on that made you think, "Oh, well, early on that made you think, "Oh, well, maybe he was the guy who did this?" maybe he was the guy who did this?" maybe he was the guy who did this?" >> Yeah, I mean, of course we have to >> Yeah, I mean, of course we have to >> Yeah, I mean, of course we have to assume that somebody who's been assume that somebody who's been assume that somebody who's been convicted four times, there's a chance convicted four times, there's a chance convicted four times, there's a chance he's guilty, of course. But, he's guilty, of course. But, he's guilty, of course. But, the more we looked into the evidence, the more we looked into the evidence, the more we looked into the evidence, there wasn't a single piece of evidence there wasn't a single piece of evidence there wasn't a single piece of evidence that actually held up. that actually held up. that actually held up. >> The first piece of evidence to crumble >> The first piece of evidence to crumble >> The first piece of evidence to crumble was the winding route Doug Evans told was the winding route Doug Evans told was the winding route Doug Evans told jurors that Curtis Flowers walked that jurors that Curtis Flowers walked that jurors that Curtis Flowers walked that July morning.

July morning. July morning. >> That, you know, Curtis woke up that >> That, you know, Curtis woke up that >> That, you know, Curtis woke up that morning, he was angry, he no longer morning, he was angry, he no longer morning, he was angry, he no longer worked at the furniture store, he wanted worked at the furniture store, he wanted worked at the furniture store, he wanted to kill the people there, but he didn't to kill the people there, but he didn't to kill the people there, but he didn't have a gun. So, he walked across town, have a gun. So, he walked across town, have a gun. So, he walked across town, stole a gun from a car, walked home, stole a gun from a car, walked home, stole a gun from a car, walked home, still angry, left his house, walked with still angry, left his house, walked with still angry, left his house, walked with the gun to the furniture store, shot the gun to the furniture store, shot the gun to the furniture store, shot four people in the head, walked home. four people in the head, walked home. four people in the head, walked home. >> It seemed far-fetched Flowers would >> It seemed far-fetched Flowers would >> It seemed far-fetched Flowers would brazenly walk so far in broad daylight. brazenly walk so far in broad daylight. brazenly walk so far in broad daylight. When the podcast reporters started When the podcast reporters started When the podcast reporters started talking to route witnesses who claimed talking to route witnesses who claimed talking to route witnesses who claimed they saw Flowers, a pattern emerged. they saw Flowers, a pattern emerged. they saw Flowers, a pattern emerged. >> It was clear that they did not, for >> It was clear that they did not, for >> It was clear that they did not, for example, pick up the phone and call the example, pick up the phone and call the example, pick up the phone and call the police and say I saw something police and say I saw something police and say I saw something suspicious, that they were sought out suspicious, that they were sought out suspicious, that they were sought out like months later in a lot of cases. And like months later in a lot of cases. And like months later in a lot of cases. And it turned out that they felt like they it turned out that they felt like they it turned out that they felt like they needed to tell law enforcement that this needed to tell law enforcement that this needed to tell law enforcement that this happened. Or as one guy said, "They happened. Or as one guy said, "They happened. Or as one guy said, "They already told me that they knew I saw already told me that they knew I saw already told me that they knew I saw Curtis." Curtis." Curtis." >> "They had the whole story laid out for >> "They had the whole story laid out for >> "They had the whole story laid out for me and all I had to do was say yes." me and all I had to do was say yes." me and all I had to do was say yes." >> Who was the most important route >> Who was the most important route >> Who was the most important route witness? witness? witness? >> Clemy Fleming. >> Clemy Fleming. >> Clemy Fleming. >> Clemy testified that Curtis Flowers was >> Clemy testified that Curtis Flowers was >> Clemy testified that Curtis Flowers was running away from the furniture store running away from the furniture store running away from the furniture store shortly after the murders. This is, of shortly after the murders. This is, of shortly after the murders. This is, of course, incredibly damning testimony if course, incredibly damning testimony if course, incredibly damning testimony if it's true. And she testified to it six it's true. And she testified to it six it's true. And she testified to it six times.

times. times. >> And what did you learn? >> And what did you learn? >> And what did you learn? >> That Clemy >> That Clemy >> That Clemy was not telling the truth. was not telling the truth. was not telling the truth. >> Clemy Fleming admitted to the podcast >> Clemy Fleming admitted to the podcast >> Clemy Fleming admitted to the podcast that she didn't remember when she saw that she didn't remember when she saw that she didn't remember when she saw Flowers running. Flowers running. Flowers running. In November, we spoke to her in Winona, In November, we spoke to her in Winona, In November, we spoke to her in Winona, where she still lives. where she still lives. where she still lives. >> You saw Curtis running through town? >> You saw Curtis running through town? >> You saw Curtis running through town? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> But you won't say what >> But you won't say what >> But you won't say what >> say what day it was. >> say what day it was. >> say what day it was. I really It happened, but I don't know I really It happened, but I don't know I really It happened, but I don't know what day it was. what day it was. what day it was. >> Did you ever tell the prosecutors, "Hey, >> Did you ever tell the prosecutors, "Hey, >> Did you ever tell the prosecutors, "Hey, I'm not sure about the day that I saw I'm not sure about the day that I saw I'm not sure about the day that I saw him?" him?" him?" >> And what did they say? >> And what did they say? >> And what did they say? >> They didn't want to hear that. They just >> They didn't want to hear that. They just >> They didn't want to hear that. They just wanted me to wanted me to wanted me to tell what I seen. They didn't want to tell what I seen. They didn't want to tell what I seen. They didn't want to worry about what day I seen him. worry about what day I seen him. worry about what day I seen him. >> Another key witness also recanted to In >> Another key witness also recanted to In >> Another key witness also recanted to In the Dark. Odell Cookie Holman, a career the Dark. Odell Cookie Holman, a career the Dark. Odell Cookie Holman, a career criminal, had testified that Curtis criminal, had testified that Curtis criminal, had testified that Curtis Flowers confessed to him in prison. Flowers confessed to him in prison. Flowers confessed to him in prison. >> Producer Samara Freemark tracked down >> Producer Samara Freemark tracked down >> Producer Samara Freemark tracked down Holman in Parchman prison. Holman in Parchman prison. Holman in Parchman prison. >> And how are you talking to him? >> And how are you talking to him? >> And how are you talking to him? >> Well, it turns out he had an illicit >> Well, it turns out he had an illicit >> Well, it turns out he had an illicit cell phone. He would set up a blanket cell phone. He would set up a blanket cell phone. He would set up a blanket for it to talk, so the guards wouldn't for it to talk, so the guards wouldn't for it to talk, so the guards wouldn't wouldn't be able to see him, so he would wouldn't be able to see him, so he would wouldn't be able to see him, so he would sort of hang blankets up over his bunk sort of hang blankets up over his bunk sort of hang blankets up over his bunk and hide in there.

and hide in there. and hide in there. >> Eventually, he admitted to Freemark that >> Eventually, he admitted to Freemark that >> Eventually, he admitted to Freemark that he made the story up about Curtis he made the story up about Curtis he made the story up about Curtis confessing. This is Holman on the phone confessing. This is Holman on the phone confessing. This is Holman on the phone from prison. from prison. from prison. >> Four years, you telling me >> Four years, you telling me >> Four years, you telling me he killed some people. Hell no, he ain't he killed some people. Hell no, he ain't he killed some people. Hell no, he ain't told me that. told me that. told me that. That was a lie. That was a lie. That was a lie. >> The podcast reported that after Holman >> The podcast reported that after Holman >> The podcast reported that after Holman came forward with a phony confession, he came forward with a phony confession, he came forward with a phony confession, he cut generous deals with prosecutors for cut generous deals with prosecutors for cut generous deals with prosecutors for years and avoided punishment for years and avoided punishment for years and avoided punishment for multiple felony charges. multiple felony charges. multiple felony charges. While he was free in 2016, he murdered While he was free in 2016, he murdered While he was free in 2016, he murdered three people and was finally sentenced three people and was finally sentenced three people and was finally sentenced to life in prison. to life in prison. to life in prison. >> Remember this is that that really >> Remember this is that that really >> Remember this is that that really beautiful music. beautiful music. beautiful music. >> The revelations turned In the Dark into >> The revelations turned In the Dark into >> The revelations turned In the Dark into a sensation. The podcast was downloaded a sensation. The podcast was downloaded a sensation. The podcast was downloaded 42 million times. But Curtis Flowers 42 million times. But Curtis Flowers 42 million times. But Curtis Flowers could not listen to it. He was on death could not listen to it. He was on death could not listen to it. He was on death row in Parchman prison reading row in Parchman prison reading row in Parchman prison reading transcripts of the podcast. transcripts of the podcast. transcripts of the podcast. >> And you're reading about these witnesses >> And you're reading about these witnesses >> And you're reading about these witnesses finally recanting their story. finally recanting their story. finally recanting their story. >> I think my first reaction was, it's >> I think my first reaction was, it's >> I think my first reaction was, it's about time.

about time. about time. And I was just ready to go home. And I was just ready to go home. And I was just ready to go home. >> As Flowers waited on death row, the >> As Flowers waited on death row, the >> As Flowers waited on death row, the podcast team continued unraveling his podcast team continued unraveling his podcast team continued unraveling his case by scouring closed jails and case by scouring closed jails and case by scouring closed jails and abandoned factories for clues and abandoned factories for clues and abandoned factories for clues and documents. documents. documents. >> We had to go and search them out like we >> We had to go and search them out like we >> We had to go and search them out like we were on a treasure hunt. And you're were on a treasure hunt. And you're were on a treasure hunt. And you're like, what are those mounds in the like, what are those mounds in the like, what are those mounds in the corner, you know? And you're like, oh, corner, you know? And you're like, oh, corner, you know? And you're like, oh, those are the public records for this those are the public records for this those are the public records for this county. And then you go through it and county. And then you go through it and county. And then you go through it and you're like, these are covered in mouse you're like, these are covered in mouse you're like, these are covered in mouse droppings, they're covered in mold. droppings, they're covered in mold. droppings, they're covered in mold. >> They also analyzed decades of court data >> They also analyzed decades of court data >> They also analyzed decades of court data that revealed prosecutor Doug Evans had that revealed prosecutor Doug Evans had that revealed prosecutor Doug Evans had a history of excluding black people from a history of excluding black people from a history of excluding black people from juries at a disproportionate rate. juries at a disproportionate rate. juries at a disproportionate rate. Across all of Curtis Flowers trials, 61 Across all of Curtis Flowers trials, 61 Across all of Curtis Flowers trials, 61 of the 72 jurors were white. All 61 of the 72 jurors were white. All 61 of the 72 jurors were white. All 61 voted to convict. voted to convict. voted to convict. Those numbers reverberated far beyond Those numbers reverberated far beyond Those numbers reverberated far beyond Mississippi. Mississippi. Mississippi. In 2019, the US Supreme Court ruled that In 2019, the US Supreme Court ruled that In 2019, the US Supreme Court ruled that Evans and the state of Mississippi had Evans and the state of Mississippi had Evans and the state of Mississippi had violated Curtis Flowers' constitutional violated Curtis Flowers' constitutional violated Curtis Flowers' constitutional rights and overturned his conviction.

rights and overturned his conviction. rights and overturned his conviction. Justice Brett Kavanaugh wrote that there Justice Brett Kavanaugh wrote that there Justice Brett Kavanaugh wrote that there was a relentless, determined effort to was a relentless, determined effort to was a relentless, determined effort to rid the jury of black individuals. rid the jury of black individuals. rid the jury of black individuals. Six months later, Curtis Flowers was Six months later, Curtis Flowers was Six months later, Curtis Flowers was released on bail. He walked out of jail released on bail. He walked out of jail released on bail. He walked out of jail with a monitor on his ankle and his with a monitor on his ankle and his with a monitor on his ankle and his sisters on his arms. sisters on his arms. sisters on his arms. >> How are you feeling? How are you feeling >> How are you feeling? How are you feeling >> How are you feeling? How are you feeling right now? right now? right now? >> I'll feel good right now. I'm I'm happy >> I'll feel good right now. I'm I'm happy >> I'll feel good right now. I'm I'm happy I'm out. I'm out. I'm out. >> For the first time in 23 years, he was >> For the first time in 23 years, he was >> For the first time in 23 years, he was out. out. out. >> Uh, I don't know. I'm so I'm so excited >> Uh, I don't know. I'm so I'm so excited >> Uh, I don't know. I'm so I'm so excited right now. right now. right now. >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> And until I felt like I was floating. I >> And until I felt like I was floating. I >> And until I felt like I was floating. I mean, I was just ready to go. mean, I was just ready to go. mean, I was just ready to go. >> In September, the ankle monitor came >> In September, the ankle monitor came >> In September, the ankle monitor came off. The Mississippi Attorney General's off. The Mississippi Attorney General's off. The Mississippi Attorney General's office dismissed all charges against office dismissed all charges against office dismissed all charges against Curtis Flowers. It wrote that it is in Curtis Flowers. It wrote that it is in Curtis Flowers. It wrote that it is in the interest of justice that the state the interest of justice that the state the interest of justice that the state will not seek an unprecedented seventh will not seek an unprecedented seventh will not seek an unprecedented seventh trial of Mr. Flowers. trial of Mr. Flowers. trial of Mr. Flowers. In November, Doug Evans, the man who In November, Doug Evans, the man who In November, Doug Evans, the man who prosecuted Curtis Flowers six times, sat prosecuted Curtis Flowers six times, sat prosecuted Curtis Flowers six times, sat down with us in his office for a rare down with us in his office for a rare down with us in his office for a rare interview. interview. interview. >> Why did you prosecute him again and >> Why did you prosecute him again and >> Why did you prosecute him again and again?

again? again? >> Because I knew he was guilty. >> Because I knew he was guilty. >> Because I knew he was guilty. And the families knew he was guilty. And And the families knew he was guilty. And And the families knew he was guilty. And the families deserve justice. the families deserve justice. the families deserve justice. >> But what about now >> But what about now >> But what about now that these witnesses have changed their that these witnesses have changed their that these witnesses have changed their stories? stories? stories? >> I don't think no that any of them have >> I don't think no that any of them have >> I don't think no that any of them have changed their stories. changed their stories. changed their stories. >> Well, Clemmie, Odell. >> Well, Clemmie, Odell. >> Well, Clemmie, Odell. >> But that's not in court under oath. >> But that's not in court under oath. >> But that's not in court under oath. >> Do you think that Curtis could get a >> Do you think that Curtis could get a >> Do you think that Curtis could get a fair trial when the jury is fair trial when the jury is fair trial when the jury is predominantly white? predominantly white? predominantly white? >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. Race has nothing to do with our part of Race has nothing to do with our part of Race has nothing to do with our part of what we do. what we do. what we do. A lot of times race gets thrown in as an A lot of times race gets thrown in as an A lot of times race gets thrown in as an excuse if there's no defense. excuse if there's no defense. excuse if there's no defense. >> Justice Brett Kavanaugh wrote, there >> Justice Brett Kavanaugh wrote, there >> Justice Brett Kavanaugh wrote, there seemed to be a relentless, determined seemed to be a relentless, determined seemed to be a relentless, determined effort to rid the jury of black effort to rid the jury of black effort to rid the jury of black individuals. That's from the Supreme individuals. That's from the Supreme individuals. That's from the Supreme Court. Court. Court. >> And I can't understand that. Basically, >> And I can't understand that. Basically, >> And I can't understand that. Basically, what he is doing is accusing me, like he what he is doing is accusing me, like he what he is doing is accusing me, like he was accused before he was put on the was accused before he was put on the was accused before he was put on the Supreme Court. Supreme Court. Supreme Court. >> Evans says he never listened to the >> Evans says he never listened to the >> Evans says he never listened to the podcast, but is convinced In the Dark podcast, but is convinced In the Dark podcast, but is convinced In the Dark set out to discredit his case.

set out to discredit his case. set out to discredit his case. >> The way this is being presented now was >> The way this is being presented now was >> The way this is being presented now was that it was a weak case, that there were that it was a weak case, that there were that it was a weak case, that there were no fingerprints, there was no DNA, there no fingerprints, there was no DNA, there no fingerprints, there was no DNA, there was no witness that put him at the crime was no witness that put him at the crime was no witness that put him at the crime scene. There's these string witnesses scene. There's these string witnesses scene. There's these string witnesses that say they saw him on the street that say they saw him on the street that say they saw him on the street >> a witness that sees him walk in the >> a witness that sees him walk in the >> a witness that sees him walk in the front door. front door. front door. That's about as close as you can get. That's about as close as you can get. That's about as close as you can get. >> But, over six trials, no witness ever >> But, over six trials, no witness ever >> But, over six trials, no witness ever testified to seeing Curtis Flowers walk testified to seeing Curtis Flowers walk testified to seeing Curtis Flowers walk in the front door at Tardy Furniture. in the front door at Tardy Furniture. in the front door at Tardy Furniture. Evans then made another startling claim. Evans then made another startling claim. Evans then made another startling claim. >> You would think that because the murders >> You would think that because the murders >> You would think that because the murders were so gruesome, you know, if nobody were so gruesome, you know, if nobody were so gruesome, you know, if nobody saw him covered in blood or anything saw him covered in blood or anything saw him covered in blood or anything like that. like that. like that. >> Well, there were people that saw him >> Well, there were people that saw him >> Well, there were people that saw him burning clothes after that, but we burning clothes after that, but we burning clothes after that, but we weren't able to introduce that, either. weren't able to introduce that, either. weren't able to introduce that, either. Uh supposedly, they saw him burning Uh supposedly, they saw him burning Uh supposedly, they saw him burning clothes and a pair of tennis shoes. clothes and a pair of tennis shoes. clothes and a pair of tennis shoes. >> Where did that happen? >> Where did that happen? >> Where did that happen? >> It was outside his house in that area >> It was outside his house in that area >> It was outside his house in that area over there. over there. over there. >> But, in 12,000 pages of pre-trial >> But, in 12,000 pages of pre-trial >> But, in 12,000 pages of pre-trial hearings and trial proceedings that we hearings and trial proceedings that we hearings and trial proceedings that we reviewed, we couldn't find any mention reviewed, we couldn't find any mention reviewed, we couldn't find any mention of that story.

of that story. of that story. Rob McDuff, Curtis Flowers' lawyer, Rob McDuff, Curtis Flowers' lawyer, Rob McDuff, Curtis Flowers' lawyer, said, "That's because it never said, "That's because it never said, "That's because it never happened." happened." happened." >> You know, it is just preposterous that >> You know, it is just preposterous that >> You know, it is just preposterous that Doug Evans continues to say these Doug Evans continues to say these Doug Evans continues to say these things. But, he's been called out on his things. But, he's been called out on his things. But, he's been called out on his deceptions, he's been called out on his deceptions, he's been called out on his deceptions, he's been called out on his misconduct time and time and time again. misconduct time and time and time again. misconduct time and time and time again. >> I believe >> I believe >> I believe every case every case every case Doug Evans ever handled should be looked Doug Evans ever handled should be looked Doug Evans ever handled should be looked into. into. into. I truly do. I truly do. I truly do. Uh I I Lord knows I would hate to see Uh I I Lord knows I would hate to see Uh I I Lord knows I would hate to see this this this happen to someone else. happen to someone else. happen to someone else. >> Curtis Flowers is now 50 years old. He >> Curtis Flowers is now 50 years old. He >> Curtis Flowers is now 50 years old. He spent nearly half his life in prison. In spent nearly half his life in prison. In spent nearly half his life in prison. In November, during a visit to see his November, during a visit to see his November, during a visit to see his family in Winona, he told us the family in Winona, he told us the family in Winona, he told us the adjustment has been slow. adjustment has been slow. adjustment has been slow. >> I'm so used to being in shackles, you >> I'm so used to being in shackles, you >> I'm so used to being in shackles, you know, making little baby steps. know, making little baby steps. know, making little baby steps. >> Really? >> Really? >> Really? >> So, then when, you know, I was turned >> So, then when, you know, I was turned >> So, then when, you know, I was turned loose and able to step like I wanted to. loose and able to step like I wanted to. loose and able to step like I wanted to. >> Uh-huh. >> Uh-huh. >> Uh-huh. >> Yeah, it takes a lot of wind, you know. >> Yeah, it takes a lot of wind, you know. >> Yeah, it takes a lot of wind, you know. >> You couldn't walk normally. >> You couldn't walk normally. >> You couldn't walk normally. >> to adjust to it.

>> to adjust to it. >> to adjust to it. >> Because you were always in shackles? >> Because you were always in shackles? >> Because you were always in shackles? >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> [singing] >> But somehow, after 23 years, the former >> But somehow, after 23 years, the former gospel singer never lost his voice. gospel singer never lost his voice. gospel singer never lost his voice. >> Let me come home, >> Let me come home, >> Let me come home, home, home. Let me [singing] come home.