Extended Interview: Republican Michigan Senate candidate Mike Rogers

You were in Congress for 14 years. You retired, spent eight years in the private sector, and then you got back into politics in 2024. >> Yeah. >> At this moment, why do you want to be a United States senator? >> Our state's in trouble. Uh we've lost 200,000 manufacturing jobs since the 20 2000. We have the highest utility rates in the Midwest. We have the highest uh auto insurance in the country. We have uh our overall economic rating you uh is 46 and this is the one that really got us off the couch and into the game. Uh twothirds of our fourth graders can't read at the fourth grade level. If you can't read at the fourth grade level by the fourth grade, you have a 70% chance of going to prison being on welfare. If we don't fix that, this country is in serious trouble. And it's not just here, but I have the uh solution for this based on things that we've done. So, we looked at all of those things. Can we help on the bring back manufacturing?

Yes. Can we help lower utility rates? Absolutely. Can we help housing here? The average new homeowner is 40 years old. Can we fix that? Yep. You bet. Can we fix this education problem? Can we put shop back in schools? Can we get kids connected to the skilled trades? The answer on all of that is yes. And so, we thought, you know what, we've done well. in the private sector. I've been a cyber security guy for the last decade and I think we can take what I learned in Congress, what I learned in the private sector and fix these big important problems. >> So that's an answer that's about Michigan, but you're running in a national environment, right? Politics is local, but politics is very national these days and midterms are always tough for the incumbent party. This midterm is shaping up to be especially tough for Republicans nationwide. So, as a Republican candidate, why do you think Republicans have an uphill battle in 2026? >> Well, I'm not worried about any other Republican right now. I'm worried about Michigan. I got in for Michigan. We've talked about local issues. We've had lots of national reporters come here and want to talk about everything else other than Michigan. And I think they missed something. This is a change election in Michigan. So, the last eight years have been the Democrats have been in charge of our state in Lancing. in the last quarter century to Democrat US senators in all of that time, all of those negative trends that I just talked about being $10,000 below the median wage.

They're feeling it here in a different way. And so when you talk about other states that have had uh you know that are more red, this is purple. We're I think Michiganers are looking at this saying, who is the best choice to make my life easier going forward and keep my kids with the option of uh staying in Michigan? That's what we talk about. We talk about it every day. We talk about it everywhere. Uh and we've gotten into coalitions that no Republican uh certainly in my time in the state has gotten into. And that part is a dynamic change and it's all about opportunity and hope and prosperity. That's why this is so different and that's why I don't really care what's happening around the country. I need to fix Michigan. But you are running to join a existing Republican Senate majority in Washington. That's really unpopular. And I feel like part of your pitch has to be to answer the question, what's going to be different for a Republican majority if Mike Rogers is part of it? What is going to be different?

>> Well, I'll get things done. So again, I'm going to be a broken record on this because this is what we're focused on. If we don't get our kids reading, we are in serious, serious trouble. So, there were five different companies around that I bumped into early on in the campaign where, and these are fabrication shops, tool and die shops, that kind of thing. So, they're not huge, they're smaller, telling me they're taking the measuring tape question off of the interview process to get uh kids interested in getting in there and getting their getting their hands dirty, building some amazing things. And I asked, "Why would you do that?" And they said, "Because we can't find a high school graduate that understands fractions on a tape measure. Now, my dad was a shop teacher. He made sure all five of us boys took shop. That's a huge problem. Uh here in the city of Detroit, where we're filming this, 15% of eighth graders can read in the eighth grade. About 12% can do math at the eighth grade level. You are punishing those kids and sending them on a path to poverty. Uh and I'm just not willing to do that. And so when I get back, I'm going to use the skills that I developed when I was there, my private sector skills in the last decade or so in the private sector cyber security business. Uh, and I'm going to put those coalitions together to start fixing this. I don't care who's there, honestly. I don't care if we're in the if we're not >> Why do you Why do you think those coalitions aren't getting put together right now?

>> I think it takes two people. It's hard. It was hard when I did it. When I was chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, uh I we sat down with my I call him my partner in the project, not my vice chairman or ranking member. We said, "Listen, this is national security is important. Can we set aside differences to make sure that the national security of the United States is protected?" Uh we came to the conclusion we have to do it. He was a former prosecutor. I'm a former FBI special agent. uh that I think uh went a long way and we were able to get amazing things done when we were doing it together. It does take some skill. It takes some time. It takes some effort. I have relationships of people I know that went from the House to the Senate. I know where to start those conversations. Uh and I know how to have those conversations. I think Americans want us to get together on things like kids reading. I think they want us to get together on making sure that if you're in your 20s, you have the capability to buy a new home. Uh I I just passionately believe it. And here, defense industrial-based work that helps America should happen in Michigan. They're going to have an advocate right here to make sure that we do that. Ship building, drone building, other things can happen right here. That's how I know it's going to get done.

>> So, what's the number one piece of legislation you'd want to work on on a bipartisan basis if you were in the Senate? >> Reading literacy. You know, we got on to this based on the fact that uh so many people who are taking the military test, as I I'm a big military family. My father, my brother, me, our son is fourth generation. My wife served in Iraq. Uh her father was a retired lieutenant colonel. So I, you know, pay attention to these things. Service is important uh to us, protecting America, those kinds of things. Patriotism runs deep in our family. One of the big reasons they were missing recruiting during COVID and other places was that kids weren't reading well enough to pass the test in America in 2026. If we don't change that, we are all in trouble. So, I have a plan to do it. That's going to be the first effort that I do. We're going to follow it up with housing. I'd love to put shop back in every high school. I'd love to get skilled trades ramped up here so that kids can go for a job that AI won't uh won't replace and China can't steal. I think those are the kinds of things that I can get done soon because of the way I can uh build these coalitions to get it done.

>> What are you hearing on the campaign trail? What's the number one issue for voters? >> Cost. I mean, you know, fuel costs are are it's just a heavy burden. And of course, that raises food cost, which is also a heavy burden. And so we talk about the, you know, I've called for an end to the Iran conflict. Uh I believe it needs to end. They did the original objective which I did support making sure they don't have a nuclear or capability to build a nuclear weapon. Army, navy, and air force is diminished where they can't hurt their neighbors. My argument is time to wrap it up. Don't keep this thing going. >> Is that the biggest driver of inflation? The Iran war, >> I think. Well, when you have prices that fuel prices that have raised raised this high, it definitely has an impact on food prices and everything you buy. So, I think it has been a major driver in that. Uh, and I think the the the president has actually done a good job getting costs under control where he can and where he can influence, making sure we have American energy, the deregulation of it. So, when the conflict ends, I think you're going to see a very quick turnaround on prices.

uh you know fuel is coming down. Uh diesel is a problem here. That's why I've called for a temporary export ban to make sure we're dealing uh with the heavy costs that's happening in agriculture primarily right in September and October. Two very very important months in the state of Michigan. Second most diverse agricultural business uh crops in the United States. People don't realize that about Michigan. And September and October is important. Those high diesel prices we had to do something about. So, I called for uh you know a export ban and a agricultural rebate. So, when I get elected, I'm going to work on making sure those farmers are are held harmless on those fuel prices. >> What do you say to a voter who says, "I hated inflation under Joe Biden. I voted for Donald Trump and the Republicans to bring down inflation. They didn't bring it down. It's still bad." >> What do I say to that? >> What What do you say to that? You're asking that you're asking that voter to to send you to the Senate as a member of a Republican majority and that voter says, "Hey, I just voted for Republicans and inflation is still high."

>> Yep. We I talk about getting out of the war. That's going to start the first pressure. The second part is listening to what Democrats are offering you for their solution, the Green New Deal, which will raise property, excuse me, utility rates here. $2,000 per house. $2,000. It'll increase gas prices by 20 cents a gallon. If you remember what happened during the Biden administration, that 9% huge amounts of spending and also they mounted this huge regulatory and mandate regime on car companies on you and everything that drove rates up. It's going to take time to peel out of some of that. Um, and yes, I do think the Iran conflict added to some of the increases in these fuel costs that are hurting families. That's why we've got to unravel this thing and find creative ways to get to them. Which is why I called for a [snorts] tax holiday on fuel for commuters. I mean, that commute is getting rough. That's 70 cents a gallon that Democrats in Lancing just raise just raise gas tax 20 cents a gallon. So, it's up to 52 cents here in the state of Michigan. We said, "Let's get a gas holiday until the conflict is done to try to give a little relief."

Democrats said no. We said yes. To me, it's a great example uh of what you're going to get if the Democrats take over control again. They're going to raise those regulatory requirements, raise the cost of utility rates and gasoline, and it won't have anything to do with the Iran war. And that's what I keep telling people. This is we we have a plan. We're going to get it done. You know, let's work through this. When I get there, and I'm not there now, but when I get there, we're going to make sure that all of our prices start to come down when this conflict is over. For sure. How do you think President Trump's second term has gone overall so far? >> Well, if you're Michigan and you're thinking about what happened here, you know, the Chevy Silverado is built in Mexico. They General Motors just announced it's coming back to Michigan. Um, and it is uh that's huge for us. It's a multi-billion dollar investments. It's plant called the Orian plant. Detroit Diesel is adding a third shift for the first time. these small manufacturers I was telling you about are now getting extra work, extra shifts because there's reshoring happening. I think that's great. I I do believe if you had an Iran with a nuclear weapon and you know what I knew in 2014 as the chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, they were the big debate in the intelligence business was is it 6 months, eight months or a year, is it less? Iran gets a nuclear weapon, you're paying $8 a gallon gas if you're lucky because they do control the straits if that happens. And so I do believe that had to happen. Now they just got to wrap it up a little sooner than uh I think they they were anticipated, but they've

got to get that done. I've called them to get it done. When I go back to the Senate, I'll work to make sure that gets done. But I I do believe that there are good things that happen. I We have cherry farmers that were getting ready to go out of business uh in because the Turks were sending cherries to Brazil, sprinkling some water on it, sending it to uh this the the rest of the country. And it really hurt our cherry farmers. They couldn't even put cherries in a carton for what they were charging for those cherries because they were subsidized by the Turkish government. >> So that's So that's a case that's a case. So you think the Trump tariffs overall, which is clearly one of the administration's signature economic policies, has been good for Michigan? >> Uh I I do. I don't I don't like the Canadian tariffs. I've said so. I've, you know, raised my concerns to the Secretary of uh Commerce. >> And what did he say? >> Uh I'll get back to you. >> Uhhuh. Why do why do you think that there's a wave of tariffs on Canada? Why do you think we have this trade war? >> Canada is not innocent in this. They have some some of these tariffs are 400%. They really hurt our dairy farmers here in Michigan and other industries.

There has to be a fairer trade. Uh I'm just saying the way they did it, I think they forgot about how integrated we are in the automobile business here. uh when you know the the Jeep uh Cherokee, it goes over that bridge probably a dozen times between Detroit and Windsor uh on its manufacturing journey. That's really hard to unravel. What does that mean for tariffs and other things and I think that was a kind of a hurl at our car companies that they probably didn't need. So here's the thing I tell people on this. Do you want to send somebody back that can actually sit down and have a conversation and get it fixed? If it's good for Michigan, I'm for it. If it's bad for Michigan, I'm against it. Or do you want to send somebody back that's trying to build a movement that's separate from what's happening right here in the state of Michigan? I I argue that's why the numbers are moving our way. Our coalitions are moving our way. People are ready for a senator who pays attention to Michigan and can actually fix and get things done. Why can't other Republican senators fix it though?

Right. Like right now, there's a Republican Senate majority, right? Obviously, I would guess that there's a lot of Republicans in the Senate. They don't represent Michigan, but they represent other states affected by the trade war. I'm sure they would agree with most of what you've just said. Why can't they get the White House to change course? >> Well, you need one more Republican senator there. That's how you do it. Okay. >> And I'm not I'm absolutely willing to have those conversations with the president. A matter of fact, the Gordy Hell Bridge, which is not far from where we're filming right now, got shut down because of this conflict between the Canadian government and uh the White House, I was able to call, work through it. We got it open. Right. To me, that's exactly what you want in a US senator from Michigan. Matter of fact, there was some FEMA money up north. We had a horrible ice storm uh that did a ton of damage up there that families were having a hard time getting through. We had FEMA money snagged up because there was a dispute between the governor uh and the White House. I was able to get that worked out, free up that FEMA money. I'm not even a US senator yet.

So, give me the opportunity. When I go back, I'm going to get these things fixed. Pretty practical. I'm not going back to be a senator. I'm going back to be a Michigan guy who helps Michigan move forward and stop this decline that we've been on for the last eight years. >> How about Iran? You've said you've called for the war to end. You said you supported the war in the beginning. >> Supported the objectives. Yes, I did. >> What what has gone wrong between the beginning and where we are right now. >> Not sure what the I don't have access to the intelligence. Um my you know when they told us originally it was whatever it was 6 weeks and then it was it started creeping up. I knew there was some some issues, but they did accomplish their original objectives, at least from what I can glean, which was that, you know, getting rid of their nuclear program. Army, navy, air force is diminished because they were causing harm. Uh, and remember, it was Iran that sponsored Hamas to go to this October 7th attack that slaughtered brutally 1,200 people, killed, killed, and raped.

They cut breasts off of women. I mean, this thing was horrific. And we sometimes in America, I think we're so desensitized to violence that we didn't understand what happened on that day. And so, they support Hamas. They support Hezbollah, they support the Houthi. So, all of that problem is all coming out of Iran. I tell people who told me, I don't want to send money to Israel. Okay, here's how we do that. We get rid of uh make sure that Iran is now part of the uh League of of Nations that respect their borders and other people. They're not the leading sponsor of terror. And guess what? The Hamas, the Houthis, the Hezbollah lose their funding, which they should. Guess what? Those go away. We don't have to do anything for Israel. That place will be a boom in the whole corridor of the Middle East. They have been the leading sponsor of terrorism in the world, all of those deaths, all of the chaos, and that's where they live. And so parts of >> it. So that's a good case for the United States being in a conflict with Iran, but you say you want the conflict to end. And as far as I can see, and you were chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, you're not read in now, but I assume you have a good sense of the landscape in the Middle East. Right now, Iran, the Iranian regime is still in power. They're battered, but >> not, you know, there hasn't been regime change. You mentioned the >> Houthi >> with Iranian support have become more powerful threatening Saudi Arabia, right? Uh and the key issue straight of

Hormuz we do have oil and gas moving through there but only because of a massive US naval presence. So if that's the context, what does it mean to say we should end the war? So there was a very strong containment strategy uh actually under the first administration for for the Trump administration that I thought was really good. You take that same containment strategy and you lay over Iran under its current condition. I think that thing starts to uh heal itself on the inside. Meaning uh we know that there are people there who want this regime to end. Um I think that helps empower people to be able to do that themselves. We just don't need three carrier groups there. >> But what if you if you take two carrier groups away and then then then you then it's harder to move oil and gas through then Michigan or gas prices go up, right? It see it doesn't seem as easy to get out of it. >> Well, I I'm going to disagree with your premise of your question. I do think we can get back to the fact that you can use that containment p and when we had it, we didn't have three carrier groups there. So, >> you can still do a lot.

>> What's in the containment policy? Well, it is sanctions. Uh really, really important. You got to have sanctions that are almost crippling for them and is crippling. You have to have enough firepower that if they stick a shovel in the ground uh in one of those nuclear sites that they don't ever do that again. And so we can do that with a less presence uh in Iran and the president's going to have to wrap it up. It just seems like though that strategy, given the willingness that they have shown to attack our Gulf allies, to attack energy infrastructure, that just doesn't sound like a strategy that is compatible with simply withdrawing a lot of American forces. It it doesn't seem like a war-ending strategy right now. >> That's your opinion. >> Okay. You would not be happy if the president after the midterm election decided to escalate against Iran. >> I'm not even going to speculate on that.

I I don't have access to what they have. Um I know that we got to wrap this thing up. Uh I think it would be best uh if the current regime was so fragile that the uh people of Iran had the capability to kind of vote their own way in their own future. I think that would be the best thing for national security for the United States. Oh, and by the way, the rest of the world and the rest of the region. I think that would be more for peace than we possibly could imagine. >> Is there one thing that you think the administration isn't doing right now on that front or any other that they should be doing that would be more likely to bring about regime change or any other good outcome? >> I mean, listen, they have certain capabilities. I don't know if they're using them or not uh to help empower people of Iran uh to stand up for themselves. Uh, I do think there's a reason that the Iranians slaughtered 50,000 people within the first month. I don't think they were random killings. I think those were killings of people that their intelligence services identified as a possible threat to their regime. I think that was very orchestrated and that slaughter was horrific and unfortunate. Uh, but they did that for self-preservation. So, I think whatever they're doing next on that side of that equation, I think they uh it's going to be a little bit more challenging to get those people in the right place at the right time with the right equipment, but I think that's absolutely doable. Uh again, from what I saw back, you know, a decade ago, there's obviously a lot of things change on both of these issues,

foreign policy and war and tariffs. The Senate has seated a fair amount of power to the president. President has tariff power that's been granted to him by Congress. Congress has war powers that are exercised less and less these days. Tariffs first. Would you support as a United States senator, as a Republican senator, trying to override the president on tariffs that you disagree with like the Canadian tariffs? >> Yeah. If the opportunity were if I can't work it out uh and it came to that, yeah, absolutely. And I'll tell you why. Listen, the Senate has an important role. Every state has its own unique equities, and sometimes that one-sizefits-all just doesn't work in America. So, you want somebody that's going to go back to the United States Senate and represent my state of Michigan. As I told you, if it's good for Michigan, I'm going to be for it. If it doesn't work for Michigan, I'm going to be against it. At least I have someone there that can have that conversation and try to get this thing uninw. Uh so absolutely I will I'll use the tools of the Senate uh to help Michigan and that doesn't mean you have to walk in with a club and an angry voice to get it done.

>> Same kind of question on Iran. You want the Iran War to end. Let's say you're in the Senate, six months go by, the US is still in some kind of quagmire. Would you support Senate or congressional action to bring the war to an end? hypothetical. I'm not going to go there. What I can tell you is and this is what people they want a very binary answer on a very complicated set of issues set. And so >> that's the the weakness of journalists. Yes, >> sure is. And so once I get there, I'll guarantee you what I'm doing is doing all my homework on what is the facts on the ground, where are we, where's the status of our military, where's the status of our intelligence services on and their assessments on what's happening on the ground. I will take all of that information. I don't have access to any of it. I'll take all that information to try to get this thing wrapped up. I'll offer suggestions. I'll do what I can do. I can uh again, it's better to have somebody in the room with having that discussion with that outcome in mind versus not having anyone in and they're just lobbing rocks and want America to fail. I think that's maybe the worst place that they could be, just wanting to have America not not come out of there with a with the best outcome possible.

>> Let's stay with foreign policy. You mentioned Israel >> and by the way, which hardly gets talked about here, but let's talk about it. >> Well, it get it it doesn't get talked about here except in the context of gas prices, inflation, right? Like clearly you yourself are making the argument that there's a strong connection between the Middle East, what's going on in the Middle East, and the concerns of voters here. And one of the issues that's I think a big deal for your opponent's campaign in terms of his ability to hold together the de the democratic coalition is the relationship between the US and Israel and your opponent is a fierce critic of that relationship and the way the US and Israel have sort of done business and what we have been getting out of that alliance. Tell me what you think the US gets out of its alliance with Israel. Well, and Amy, I passionately defend Israel's right to defend itself and to exist as a Jewish state. That sets me at odds with my opponent right off the bat.

He refuses to even acknowledge that Israel has the right to exist. He equates Iran with Israel, the leading state sponsor of terror in the world with Israel. I I think that's unqualifying to go into the United States Senate. If you don't know who your friends and enemies are around the world, that's trouble. And so I start there. Uh, I think he's wrong on it. His language is wrong. They use terms like genocide, chanting from the river to the sea. I I will tell you there are Jewish students at University of Michigan that my wife and I talked to who have to hide their Star of David to walk across campus because the harassment is so bad. Think of that. I I was actually in a with students earlier today where one of the questions was, I'm not sure I understand this APEC thing or Jewish or whatever or Israel. They don't know. But by the way, all of their information they're getting is very anti-Israel. And when leaders who are saying things like genocide, saying they have blood lust, saying that they don't have the right to exist, you're ramping up this language.

And it's not him, but it's the supporters that we worry about because we see that in action. When Jewish members of uh Michigan walking across that campus have to hide who they are, we're in trouble. That is anti-American. And that's not just anti-Jewish, and it is. It's anti-American. That language he does. She should not get a pass on his language on this. It is causing fear, anger, division, which is why Jewish Democrats for Rogers fast growing uh uh coalition for us because they're worried about their kids and what kind of America they get to grow up in. And this is becoming part of the Democrat socialist agenda uh that you have to be anti-Israel. Right down the road here, they were having a huge 7,000 delegate meeting in uh uh for uh the Democrats. And one of the things is you had to be you had to say it's a genocide to get in the room. What this is becoming really dangerous and really fast. And I will guarantee you when I go back to the United States Senate, we're going to get we're gonna make plans to make sure that this isn't baked into America in the future. If you can imagine taking two two% of our population and demonizing them, when that's done, where do they go next? This this is that serious. We see it on the ground here in Michigan.

>> What do you when you say you'll make sure that this isn't the future? What does that mean? What can the US Senate do about anti-semitism? >> We're going to make sure we start at our universities. They're going to have real anti-semitic programs with teeth. Uh, and we have ways that we can encourage them to do the right thing. I've already talked to people on uh regents at the University of Michigan and said, "I'm coming as soon as I am elected before I'm sworn in. We're going to start having these conversations." They just had indictments for students pro part of the pro Palestinian movement on University of Michigan. Eight indictments. Matter of fact, one of them worked for Abdul Elsed, right? And that language, that anger, that divisiveness got translated into things like throwing a chemical device into the uh window of one of the Jewish regents. The in in Michigan, we have regents that run the university. And and all of them got things like their tires slashed, graffiti, all of these things. And it whips these young folks into doing things they ought not to be doing. And it's angry and it's divisive. And so that's one way we think we can do it. I don't think Qataris should be sending money to our universities. I think we have to relook at that very seriously uh to make sure that they're not influencing uh these colleges to take a stance against anti-semitism. And it, believe me, it's blown past it here in Michigan to being anti-Jewish. If you can't condemn a terrorist who tried to

kill 130 children right here in Michigan uh by putting explosives in the back and gasoline drove through the door trying to set it off. You can't condemn that. You don't understand how serious that is. Man, you have no business being in the United States Senate. I think what your opponent said in that case was that he condemned the attempted terror attack, but he said something like hurt people hurt people, right? That basically a lot of the animous towards Israel, the rage you're describing comes out of Israel's own policies in the region. What do you think of how Israel has prosecuted the war in Gaza? So we we believe that the terrorist who tried to kill 130 kids has the right to do that because he disagreed with policy 5,000 miles away. That's what he said. And he said I'm sorry the context he >> to be clear. I don't he did not say he had the right to do that. I think he was he was offering >> you and I are interpreting this language. And the good news and the good news is you don't vote here because these Jewish Democrats are coming forward like crazy because they heard exactly what he did which was say it's contextual. I don't you can't get to violence on campuses and and chemical weapons thrown through people's doors because they're Jewish.

>> We have to stop this and stop it now. And I don't know why the press wants to play games with how he very carefully words his condemnation, but this thing has grown out of control. >> I guess I'm just interested in where you think >> the rage and anger and anti-Israel sentiment that you're describing comes from because you also talk about it. Okay. Because you also see it on the political right. There are people in the Republican coalition who have become very very harshly critical of Israel and it has surged at a time when Israel has been making war in Gaza. So that's why I asked about >> are we going to talk about what's going on in Michigan? By the way, we spent a lot of time on foreign policy. I'm running for Michigan. I know you guys are out of town, but what's happening here in Michigan is why I'm doing as well as I am. >> So we'll just keep it to Michigan. You were just describing what you see as the rise of anti-semitism and anti-Israel sentiment in Michigan.

>> Yep. It's happening. >> Do you think that that has anything to do with events in the Middle East? Well, I certainly think that on October 7th when terrorists funded by Iran came across the border, raped, murdered, killed whole families, put babies in ovens, literally tore women's, cut women's breasts off. Yeah, you bet. As a former army officer and a special agent, that gets my blood going. that that kind of terrorist activity gets a kind of a pass because they don't like the fact that Israel decided I'm not going to let that happen to my people again. Think about that. You know, that's equivalent of if if the Mexicans decided to come over the border and do the same exact thing. That would be 40,000 Americans raped, murdered, kidnapped back across the border. What would we do? I would hope we'd have the courage to do what we needed to do. So yeah, uh this is is >> but but the language is important. I I hear you giving them a pass for the language. I hear a lot of press giving them a pass for the language, which is why this thing continues to spiral out of the ground. We need to call it what it is. And they have created language that is angry and divisive, which is why the very unique coalitions that are forming around my campaign are going to allow us to win in November. You can't disregard those people or their feelings or the feelings of the safety of their children when they walk on a campus because they're Jewish. We can't let

this happen. I don't care if it's right or left. I don't care who it is. It's wrong. And I'm going to do something about it when I become a US senator. >> I want to promise you that my next question after we leave this topic is going to be about that coalition and what you're building in Michigan. Promise. >> But I I promise. But I want to just stay with the topic of Israel for a moment and just get your view on the the nature of the USIsrael alliance, what we get out of it, and you suggested that basically they did what they needed to do in Gaza. Is that just is that your assessment of Israel's war in Gaza? >> You you'll never get to a solution if Hamas is in charge of anything. They are a terrorist organization and you saw what they're capable of on October 7th. You know, could one thing or two things be done differently? I'm again, I don't have access to all that you on the ground information maybe. But think about what they they just got attacked.

1,200 people. No, America seems to for have forgotten about it. They just walked past it and now all the language is all forgiving. Oh, he he said it's no, that's not what's happening. And I see it because I see it on campuses here where the rhetoric is causing huge problem. The next generation of kids thinks it's really cool to be against the Jews. What are we doing? This sounds like 1933. It doesn't sound like today. And that's not the America I wore the uniform to defend and that's not the America I want to live in. So we're going to have to have conver conversations and some of them are going to be really hard. But if you have those conversations and one of those kids says, you're a sen, let's say you're a senator at this point and they say, "Look, Senator Rogers, I'm not an anti-semite. I support Israel's right to exist. I just think they went too far and committed war crimes in Gaza." I'm curious what you say to that. >> Fair conversation, but that's that's not who we're talking about. We're talking about a guy who does not believe Israel has the right to exist. Don't I wouldn't lose sight of that. He just said it again. He just came out the other day and said Israel is our enemy. doesn't have the right to exist. It's not about Netanyahu. It's about Israel. I don't know how much clearer it can be and I don't know why people are willing to give this guy a pass on any of that.

We've talked a lot about everything other than the great state of Michigan and how I'm going to win. >> But isn't this I think this is part of Now I'm going to ask it again. You can say you can say whatever you want and then we'll move on. But when I look at polls, if you look at just again among Republican voters, younger Republican voters are less supportive of Israel than older Republican voters. And I feel like if you got in a conversation with whether it's younger Republicans or younger progressives on college campuses, they would say to you something like, "I'm not an anti-semite. I'm not anti-Israel, but I think Israel committed war crimes or went too far in the war in Gaza. And I'm just curious what you as someone running to help conduct US foreign policy says to that complaint or critique. >> You you have to separate criticism of Israel from criticism of being Jewish. They have not mastered that. the all of the information pouring in on these kids' phones is decidedly it's not just anti it's it is outandout anti-Jewish and I can tell you as a cyber guy there's outside influences pouring into those inboxes of those kids trying to convince him of something that isn't true I had that question today was horrifically uninformed just didn't understand once I have a opportunity to sit down and talk to him you know let's work through this let's see do you think this this or this, we

get to a good place and that's how we have to do this. We're going to have to have better language about it. Uh, and now you have a entire political party trying to make this a plank in their platform going forward. I think that's wrong and I think that divisiveness is bad. You want to talk about having I I know I talked to a lot of Jewish voters who don't like Netanyahu. This is okay that you're allowed to have that difference and let's talk about it. What would be different? How could we do it different? That's a very different conversation than a campaign who is basically trying to say Israel is our problem. If you're Jewish, you're our problem. We did this once in history and it was disastrous. My argument is let's stop it right now. >> So tell me about the kind of coalition that you're trying to build around some of these issues, which is why we've been talking about them >> in Michigan. What does that coalition look like? Why is it different from a traditional Republican coalition? So, we have several and think about this. The the state party Democrat state party chairman came out last week and said, "I I can't support Abdul Elsiad. He's too extreme." Uh, one of the finance chairs of Alyssa Slaken, the new senator that was elected two years ago, came out and said, "I cannot support Abdul Els. He's too extreme." Uh, that theme, if you have a former Democrat chair saying, "Wait a minute, something's wrong." When Senator Cy Booker from New Jersey met him, he came out and said, "This guy is

a quote fringe candidate." When uh Van Jones, who's a CNN liberal commentator, comes out and said his policies are insane, quote unquote. When people around you are starting to talk like that, maybe we ought to be paying attention. And what that has allowed us to do is have conversations in Detroit with the African-American community. and it has been really productive. They care. They want to know that someone's going to care about their housing issues, their education issues, uh, affordable housing issues. We have a food desert that happens in Detroit that I think I have a plan that I can get, uh, get get grocery stores down here run by the community and run by people that you go to church with on Sunday so that they can be feel a part of the solution of these things. Not a government-run one, by the way. we're just going to have lots of uh uh commercial enterprise teaching people how to run. I I'm pretty excited about all of this, which is why we're doing so well in the African-American community, not only here in Detroit, but Flint uh and Pontiac.

>> Say a little bit more about why you think African-American voters in particular are more open to your pitch, because I think again, we've been talking about why Jewish Democrats might be open to your argument, but what about African-Americans? So, a couple of things. A, um, candidly, Abdul when he comes to town is very dismissive. He told a group of pastors that, uh, you know what? I don't know. Get on board. I don't need your votes. I'll make them up somewhere else. Maybe about the worst thing you can say as a candidate that's trying to grow your grow your coalition. We don't have those conversations. We come down. We've had great pastor meetings across a very diverse set of of uh pastors around the city who are engaged in different things in the community. I've talked to the law enforcement. I've talked to the city council members who are eager to get us here to talk about skilled trades, to talk about getting education up. We are here talking to them about their problems and how we're going to fix it together as a senator. When somebody comes in and talks about democrat socialism and a bigger government and we're going to go back and worry about being a president in 2028, guess what?

Completely turns them off. And that's exactly what's happened. We took that as an opportunity to come have real conversations. I mean, I went into one uh pastor's church maybe two weeks ago who said uh you know, did a little work uh haven't found a Republican in here in 76 years. Uh and so what we're doing is having conversations in a way we just didn't have before. and they're welcome to hearing it. And we're striking up real and lasting relationships. This isn't about a fly by night, you know, which I think has been happening in cities like Detroit. They get your vote and you don't ever hear from them again. We're here. We're committed to this. They get it. They get a sense of it. You know, I had a pastor call me after one of the meetings. I thought it was the greatest compliment you get. He said, 'You know, I've listened to you. I've talked I've watched what you're doing. He said, 'You know what? You don't have a hole in your heart. I want you to I'm going to help you down here in the city. Huge. I mean, for a pastor who is, you know, admittedly a lifelong Democrat to say that and invite us in, huge for us.

And so, that's why this coalition is getting bigger. The fastest growing one is Democrats for Rogers happens to be in Detroit. And we sell uh sell out, we hand out, but uh those the Democrats for Rogers yard signs is the fastest thing we got flying out the door right now. people are ready to make that commitment and invest in their future and they're not worried about somebody who wants to create a socialist movement either here or around the country. I mean, it was pretty amazing. I'll just tell you one quick story why one one of the folks uh is helping me here. It's a elected Democrat, invited my wife and I down and said, "I think we're ready to have a conversation getting through all of our issue lists, you know, education and skilled trades and shopping school and how we get our, you know, get our kids better opportunity here." And I, when it was all done, she said, "This is great. I'm going to tell people that I think you're good for the city and you're, you know," and I said, "This is great, but why are you doing this?" She said over the weekend, somebody knocked on my door uh and handed her a pamphlet and basically said, "Help us make Detroit a Democrat socialist of America city." She closed the door and said, "I'll be damned if that's going to happen on my watch."

Nobody wants to travel down that road. I mean, there are some obviously or they wouldn't be here and they wouldn't be campaigning and they wouldn't be trying to get Abdul Elsai elected, but people who are here and know the community are not interested in this big Democrat socialist agenda that they're pushing. Uh, and that has been an opening for us all across this city and all across uh Pontiac and Flint in non-traditional Republican coalitions. One thing that I've heard, and I think maybe a couple of the examples you cited involve this, is Democrats, lifelong Democrats, saying they don't feel like they can vote for the Democratic nominee, but they can't vote for you because it's a vote to empower the Trump administration and the Republican party, and so they're just leaving their ballot blank or staying home. What is the pitch that you're trying to make to those voters to get them from staying home to actually saying it's okay to add another Republican in the Senate? >> You know, when I was uh in Congress, the TARP, if you remember, TARP was the the bailout.

>> Wall Street came came with their hands out and were asking uh for money. >> That's probably the most pressure I've ever had on a vote uh with that I was in in Congress to vote for it and it would have bailed out Wall Street. uh including heavy weighin from the president. Um I said no because I didn't think that was the right thing to do uh and it didn't help the state of Michigan. Uh not an easy thing to do. There was a lot of pressure around that. There was a lot of panic about what was going to happen. I just couldn't get there and I couldn't get there on the math and I didn't think it was right that people in Michigan were struggling to pay their mortgages because of this. But we were going to send money to Wall Street. Didn't like it. I did vote for the auto bailout. I think if you look at who I am and how I've handled myself back in Congress and what we're trying to accomplish now, when I need to stand up for Michigan, I will. I don't care who the president is. And uh don't you want somebody that can go back and push a little bit when when we need a little pushing to happen? You need that. You need that uh reputation. You need that gravitas to walk in to do that. I think I have earned that. Uh and then I go down our list. Are you for kids reading?

Are you for are you for homeowners trying to get homes in their 20s versus 40s? Uh are you willing to uh go after these u advanced manufacturing jobs to bring it back to Michigan in ship building in submarine components in uh drones in the aerospace industry that's going to need a lot of support and and effort and jobs. That's where we're going. That's what I talk about. That's what I've talked about for two years. uh people that people are drawn to this to know that okay I'm I am a Democrat. I don't like Donald Trump, but I know that this guy wants to get my kids reading again. I can get there. And so we're not going to get them all. We get people who say, you know, I can't vote for you, but I'm not voting for Abdul. Great. We'll take that. We're getting a lot of people. And why that is we're spending time, lots of time with people, individual small meetings. We've done thousands of these things across the state and it's working. And so we have this tradition and when you say you look at polls, how do you pull the fact that our Jewish Democrat Jewish Coalition, which is about 70,000 voters, thinks that we're going to get 35,000 of those votes? How do you pull that? Can't pull it. Uh how do you poll that we're going to have African-Americans in the city of Detroit uh that are going to vote for us? I mean, we were at an event late last night, uh, talking to a lot of, you know, people who said, "I've never voted for a Republican." We had long conversations. We had a little fun along the way. Uh, and they're saying,

"We're we're going to do this. We're going to trust you." Uh, and that you can't poll. Those people aren't aren't answering polls. >> One thing you saw throughout the Trump era is that there's lots of groups of people who don't answer polls, right? Including people who are Trump voters and MAGA voters and so on. It's part of what's makes the landscape so challenging. One of the really interesting things about this race is that you're here talking about going unconventional places, adding voters who usually vote for a Democrat. And the SED campaign is doing the same thing. They're saying we're going to get a lot of people who voted for Trump in 2024, who've been Republicans, who are disillusioned with the Iran war, who are disillusioned with inflation, the issues we've been talking about. and they're even, you know, they're taking bus tours up into more rural parts of the state which traditionally lean Republican. What do you think about their play for, you know, a new coalition? >> Part of the reason they have to go up north is they're losing the coalition battle right here in southeast Michigan where the majority of the votes are. And so, yep, they're going to get some help and support at they go to colleges and universities and they whip that all up and that's, you know, good for them.

That's certainly a strategy. uh we're not seeing it on the doors. And here's what another thing I think the national folks just don't see. We've crossed six million doors knocked since we started. So while the Democrats were fighting it out in their primary for a very long time, we built the largest ground game it certainly in the history of Michigan and I'm going to put it up against any state. Uh it is so well organized. It's tech uh tech uh enabled. Uh we are just ramping up our contacts with doors. And so here's what we're hearing on those doors. And you get those assessments. They're fired up. They're not going away. Yes, there's some things they don't like, but they're going to stick with the team where they think is not going to increase their utility rates or their 20 cents a gallon gas rates or or make their lives a little more expensive through these Green New Deal, higher taxes, which is what they're talking about. Well, let me rephrase that. They're not talking about that. They don't want to talk about that. They just say, "Gas prices are high. Vote for me."

Well, what are you going to do about it? Well, the problem is their plan raises all of those costs. So, what we're getting off the doors, that's just not true. That we're not seeing this trend of Trump voters saying they're not going to vote uh they're going to vote Democrat in this election. We don't see it. >> What about turnout, though? Are you worried about people who turn out for Donald Trump who don't turn out for down ballot races? Because that's been a problem for Republicans. >> Yeah. In red states, they're finding they have uh an intensity problem. This is a purple state. Democrats have been in charge since for the last eight years in Lancing, last 20 uh six years. Uh here they have had two Democrat US senators. Every metric has gone down. We're almost at the bottom. We can't go much lower. And so what people know is okay, Democrats are in charge. All my rates went up. My utility rates went up. They raised gas prices. They raised 20 cents a gallon under the Democrats. The utility, they passed their own Green New Deal bill. They've raised utility rates since 2023 nine times. Just did one last week.

People are tired of having the government impose high costs on purpose. We're just not seeing that at the doors. And that's what people, you know, you can take a poll and try to get sentiment and all of that nonsense. We're hearing, we're actually talking to people, right? And they're telling us, "No, >> pollsters do talk to people, too." In fairness, or they try. >> Did you see how bad they were? They had Abdul winning 15 points going into the primary. He won by 9/10en of 1%. He had more Democrats vote for him than vote for him. He lost the city of Detroit. It was like 61 something to 30 something. Well, guess what? We're in the city of Detroit. We're talking to people who are a little bit hesitant to vote for the guy and we're out on the doors getting traditional Republicans to show up. You can't. If you can get that on a poll, I think you're a genius. Honestly, I I don't know how they do it. uh they've been wrong and underprolled Republicans in the last few races by about four points. So even if we go tied with these individual polls that are flying around out there, we think we're in great shape.

>> You mentioned that you're selling yourself to people who are wavering or who might be traditional Democratic voters as someone who will be independent >> in DC. Let me let me >> plus I've done that. >> And well, let me ask you about a couple a couple of issues where that could be put to the test. The first is, and I am going to cite those polls that are flying around, but one of the issues that voters keep citing in this election is corruption. >> And there are a lot of allegations of corruption around the Trump White House. >> Do you think that the Trump administration has a corruption problem? >> Well, I can tell you this. I'm a I'm an FBI agent by training. >> What did you work on as an FBI agent? >> Organized crime and public corruption. >> And public corruption. Yes. Yes. So, I'm going to act as United States Senator with the best interest of Michigan. I can tell you that right now. >> Can you tell me a little bit more about what that would mean? >> Well, I I always take the facts that as I see them and I'll take the facts as I see them and I'll make a decision based on that.

>> Okay. What do you >> the speculation? I I don't know. It's all speculation. >> Okay. Well, let's let's just be let's be very concrete. Um the president of the United States accepted a jet from a Middle Eastern nation. Do you think he should have done that? >> I mean, that's not what I would have done. U but that's uh I don't think it's illegal for the president to do that. But I I it's not the tact I would have gone on that. I I would like to to make sure that we make sure that there isn't any question of of uh impropriety on those kinds of things. Okay. You or they should have gone through Congress. I think there's a way that I understand that there's a way to do that. I I assume that's what they did, but I don't know. >> Do you think, >> and again, this is all speculation. That's why I don't like these conversations. You want me to speculate on something I just don't know the answer or the details of. >> Do you think that it is reasonable for the US Senate to examine the conduct of family members of people who hold high office, whether they are related to the president himself or related to cabinet officials, because we have a lot of examples. This is very concrete. It's not speculative of people with family connections to the administration doing business deals in areas that are connected to US foreign policy. Should the Senate be concerned about that?

>> If it if it is against the interest of the United States, absolutely. I I think that's a pretty clear thing. But again, lots of speculation, lots of that. I don't have the details. When I get back, I'll get my hands around the details. I promise you that. >> Right. But even if it means having the president of the United States call you up and say, you know, leave this alone, right? >> I've had the president of the United States call me before and I did what was right for Michigan. I don't I this I I have a track record. People can say things. I have a track record and that track record is pretty good. both uh matter of fact we were shouted out as the most bipartisan group in the house at the time working on intelligence budgets and other things uh and certainly the the TARP issue was the probably the biggest and most people probably don't remember it was a real significant issue I did what I did to me the best way to determine who's going to go back to the United States Senate what did they do then well I was independent then I'm going to be independent when I get there >> talk to me about Ukraine Ukraine and Russia.

>> This is an area as with Iran where you have had a hawkish perspective. You've been supportive of Ukraine. You've said uh in the past, quote, "I don't think we can give Putin an inch. Right now, the president is giving Putin sanctions relief. Whose side do you think the president is on in that war right now?" >> I I I don't know if what side he's on. Uh, I have come out and said I didn't like the diesel deal and I would have voted for this the sanctions and here's the difference. I'd be down at the White House talking through all this right now. That's the difference. Uh, you know, again, I don't think everything has to be a poke in the eye run to the microphones. I got more work done when I didn't do that. I worked under the Biden administration as the chairman. uh and when we had differences, trust me, I went down and made uh made our differences known with the goal of getting it fixed, not necessarily getting a press release. I think that's the difference.

>> But on that issue, like Iran, like tariffs right the Senate has been unwilling to take the next step when those kind of conversations don't seem to go anywhere and actually try and >> Well, that's why you need another Republican back there, >> right? >> And it's this Also coming back to why we >> why we're we're running in Michigan to make Michigan different. I mean those are a lot of issues honestly I don't even hear about on the campaign trail. I just don't I do hear about kids can't read. I do hear about costs. I do hear about what you're going to do on gas prices. I hear all of that. Don't hear a lot of these issues on the on the campaign trail because they I they know who I am. So, these are these are questions now that are as identical as we can make them to questions that we'll be asking your opponent. And I'm going to start with what's the biggest thing that's different about American politics if you win this election. >> Well, I'm not sure about American politics, but I'm going to change the politics of Michigan for sure. Uh we just really haven't had in a quarter century US senators who are caring about the kinds of things we need to do here.

increase our defense industrialbased work. Uh I mean look at our education system, look at our economic picture. I have a way to do that. So I can tell you Michigan politics is going to change because you're going to have somebody who's an advocate for the state of Michigan. >> What should be the first economic priority of the next US Congress? >> Uh to continue to maintain we have low energy costs. So increase and unleash continuing to do that for American energy is the best way to get us up off our feet. Now that also relates to utility bills, gasoline prices. Um adding more bureaucratic nonsense, the Green New Deal, more government mandates is a will be a disaster for the state of Michigan. We'll be bumping along 50 here pretty soon if they uh get their way. What, if anything, should the next Congress do to address the risks of artificial intelligence? >> So, I have a plan. There's a framework, a national security framework that I see working its through way through Congress. I think that has to happen.

Uh, and that will put guard rails to make sure that these things don't get ahead of us. Uh and secondly and this is more unique uh I think we ought to have uh look at antitrust laws to make sure that these AI companies can cooperate on safety uh of their products. Right now they can't do it because of antitrust. I argue get a very narrowly crafted piece of legislation that where they can talk about safety where one company might say that's bad and we already figured it out. Maybe we should share that with the other company so they don't make the mistake and something bad happens. we should be allowing that kind of cooperation. So uh guard rails on the um from a national security perspective and a safety cooperation I think would be the right way to do this. >> Are you worried about the potential economic impacts of AI in terms of the kinds of job losses that have not materialized to be clear but that AI tycoons keep predicting?

>> Yeah. Um clearly yes. And so we've got to make sure we're going to be we have to take uh you know kind of a a monthby-month look at I've never seen a technology change so rapidly uh in in American uh history as fast as this AI thing has developed like it used to be 18 months now they're saying nine months it just doubles over again. So yes I mean obviously we're concerned we have to be smart about it. We don't want to lose to China or Russia and the AI uh race if you will. Uh but we also need to make sure that people are protected here at home. >> What do we win if we win the race? >> Well, Shyigu, who was at that time the the Russian defense minister, came out and said, this was probably a decade ago, whoever wins the AI race wins the next war. And so what that does is tells you what their thinking is. They have a more weaponized automated weapon system idea of this. we have a more productivity uh approach here in America like how do we make things more appro uh productivity more productive excuse me um and so that that's just a different worldview we have to make sure uh that they don't come up with weapon systems that are uh you know AIdriven uh that could cause us harm and put us behind the eightball on those. We must must must uh take a look at all of those uh those capabilities and you can't lose. You have to continue to innovate to make sure you can beat them on a

battlefield. Number one. Uh and then what does it do for our economics? Number two. >> Two more. Describe your opponent in the most fair-minded possible terms. >> He's a very gifted Democrat socialist of America. Uh his rhetoric is he's clearly a very gifted speaker. He talks real pretty. Problem is the outcome of what he's trying to do. >> I don't know if that was completely in the spirit of the question. >> You're not going to get much better from me. >> Fair enough. Finally, what's the most important question that Michigan voters specifically are weighing as they go to the polls? >> You know, I think they're just looking for somebody that pays attention to them and and has their best interests at heart. If you go back thinking you're going to create a movement, you've already got your domain names for president. That person isn't going to care about the kinds of things we need to do in Michigan. I think they're looking for someone like me who worked on a car factory floor, worked my way through college, served in the United States military, served as a special agent with the FBI. I think they're looking for somebody who says, "I'm going to put America first. I'm going to put Michigan first." Uh, and I'm the right guy to do that. I think that is very different than where my opponent is and I think that's what's going to be the big difference maker uh come November.

>> You've called your opponent the most extreme dangerous candidate to ever run for the United States Senate in the history of our country. >> That is a pretty strong statement. >> Could you defend it, please? >> Absolutely. Two for two reasons. uh the Democrat socialist candidate who's been supported, who's raised money for them, uh certainly he has all of those proclivities. If you look at his issue set, defund the police, give let uh let people out of prison, all of the things that are associated with that, Democrat socialist, big government, government taking over private healthcare, you lose your private health insurance, that's all DSA. He also has an extra uh close relationship with organizations I think that are probably not uh in in the best interests of of the United States. One of his uh donors is the former spokesman for the Muslim Brotherhood. I think that's of concern. He wrote a letter in support for the Muslim Brotherhood uh in when they uh took over Egypt in 20 uh whatever that was 2012 and 2013 uh that I think is very very concerning.

And again, it's not about how he prays. It is his ideology. It's the way he thinks. And if those are the kind of organizations that you support, by the way, at that time said that he that the Muslim Brotherhood should purge the police and purge the press. So, I don't know, you press guys should be get worked up over this. He is uh talked about it. That's exactly what they did. He supported it. Then he lied to Michiganders when he looked him in the eye and said, "My family has no relation with this." My argument is that's a pattern of deception that is really really concerning. Uh like I said, he's very good on his feet. He's an Oxford trained debater. All of that is really important. The problem is you got to peel it back a little bit. What is he trying to do? More taxes, higher utility rates. Uh he believes that he wanted to be 100% renewables in 10 years, which would absolutely devastate uh our auto insurance. But there's a there's a little bit of a mismatch there between >> is there >> between just between the examples of things you're afraid that he'll do like higher higher utility rates maybe a bad thing but they're not the most dangerous thing in the history of the United States. So what what is the thing that he would do as a United States senator that you're most afraid of?

>> Well, he says he wants to serve on the Foreign Affairs Committee. He has lied about his relationship with the Muslim Brotherhood. remember he supported it through an op-ed sent it in we have him on his own words uh supporting them uh he has taken money from organizations that finance the Muslim Brotherhood he has donors uh including the former spokesman of the Muslim Brotherhood uh he has the only he has the the uh only Senate candidate or actually of any candidate in the United States who got a congratulations on the front page of the Muslim Brotherhood said, "Congratulations. This is an exciting day." Was Abdul El say. That relationship as a former FBI guy is concerning. When you take money from people who support Hamas and Hezbollah, when you take money from an organization that's directly supporting the Muslim Brotherhood, uh when you have uh family members that have been very openly supportive of the Muslim Brotherhood, but you won't talk about it, you won't deny it. And then you add on top, can't condemn a terrorist, a Hezbollah sponsored terrorist who tried to kill 130 school children right here in the state of Michigan. I'm sorry. That is something we should be concerned about.

And as a former FBI agent with that relationship with those financial uh connections with you saying I support the Muslim Brotherhood who went in and treated like treated women like secondclass citizens. Yeah, I'm sorry. That is something that people need to understand and he either needs to clarify and he never quite does it. He needs to either clarify so people can feel comfortable or uh or that should be a concern when you walk into the ballot box. >> Completely different kind of question. If you had to give the second Trump administration a grade, what would it be? >> Oh, I I'm an easy grader, so you don't want to do that. Listen, I I >> No, I know. Then I definitely do. [laughter] I definitely do. I here's the thing. I mean, I get the whole thing. There are things that I know are working. A second shift, excuse me, a third shift at Detroit Diesel. Huge. The Chevy Silverado here is a multi-billion dollar investment in Michigan. Those are I can't tell you how important they are.

Remember, we are the only state that lost 27,000 manufacturing jobs in the last eight years. The rest of the country gained 100,000. We are we are on a Can I How many manufacturing jobs has Michigan gained under President Trump in the last 18 months? >> Well, with these announcements, you'll get them. They haven't started yet. The second shift with uh Detroit Diesel will be more manufacturing jobs. These small U fabrication shops are getting calls right now for orders. I mean, I I know that because we're talking to them. So, it's happening. That part of the reshoring is happening. General Motors is bringing back um they they'll build 500,000 more cars when they're done and it'll probably through 2027 from China and Mexico. It's coming back. >> I still want the grade though. >> I can't Well, for that I give you an A if you're if you got if you have jobs for for Michigan workers, right? Huge. That's that's an A++. >> Okay. So, you got an A++ and then and then you've got um the >> Canadian trade war that you've criticized.

>> Yeah. the Iran war that you think should end right now. Maybe throw in a couple other things. It's pulling the average down too. >> Well, I don't look at it that way. Can I go back and have a conversation to fix it? I think the answer is yes. So, I'm not sure. When I get back there, that's the time to ask me what the grade is. If I can't get these things changed around, I might have a very different opinion. I think I can based on my example of getting the bridge uh the Gordy How Bridge uh issue solved, getting the FEMA money up north solved. Uh I'm in contact with them right now about Canada like, "Hey, let's go. We got to get you either got to get it done or you don't want to see me when I get back. I'll be a little orary about it." >> When was the last time you talked to the president? >> Gosh, month ago. But I talked to his people a lot. So the Secretary of Commerce office and the Secretary himself talked to talked to somebody yesterday on Canada. Uh and so we're having those productive conversations. You It's hard to give a grade when you know that they're they're at least listening to you and they are trying to get things right. Uh and they know I think they want me. They're definitely know I'm coming back. Uh and so I think they're trying to work with me. I think that's great. It's great for Michigan.

It's great for our employment base. And you have to remember we're down at 46 46 in the nation on economic opportunity. We This is not sustainable. Not sustainable. And so we have to have someone that goes back to try to fix things, not be, you know, you want to make it very binary. I just don't think it's that binary. I think I've got to go back. I'm going to fight the things that aren't good for Michigan. I am going to applaud the things that are and I'm going to try to get these thing done so when I'm done people can say we're better off than when he got elected uh in the economy, in education, in skilled trades, uh food deserts in uh in Detroit. Uh if we still have food deserts in six years, I may not, you know, I told folks, get rid of me. Don't do it. We've got to get this done.