The Impact of Influencers on the Church

This TGC25 breakout experienced some This TGC25 breakout experienced some technical difficulties throughout the technical difficulties throughout the technical difficulties throughout the recording process. You may notice a few recording process. You may notice a few recording process. You may notice a few audio and video dropouts throughout the audio and video dropouts throughout the audio and video dropouts throughout the session. The vast majority of the session. The vast majority of the session. The vast majority of the content is still intact which we hope content is still intact which we hope content is still intact which we hope you you you enjoy. Thank you for for coming to enjoy. Thank you for for coming to enjoy. Thank you for for coming to breakout round number two. The session breakout round number two. The session breakout round number two. The session we have here, the influential people in we have here, the influential people in we have here, the influential people in your church who aren't actually in your your church who aren't actually in your your church who aren't actually in your church, the impact of social media on church, the impact of social media on church, the impact of social media on the local church. Um my name is Colin the local church. Um my name is Colin the local church. Um my name is Colin Hansen. serve as the Gospel Coalition's Hansen. serve as the Gospel Coalition's Hansen. serve as the Gospel Coalition's editor-inchief, the vice president for editor-inchief, the vice president for editor-inchief, the vice president for content, and the executive director of content, and the executive director of content, and the executive director of the Keller Center for Cultural the Keller Center for Cultural the Keller Center for Cultural Apologetics. It's just fun to be able Apologetics. It's just fun to be able Apologetics. It's just fun to be able most of my job is just sitting at home most of my job is just sitting at home most of my job is just sitting at home behind a laptop. So, it's fun to see behind a laptop. So, it's fun to see behind a laptop. So, it's fun to see everybody see everybody out here. Um, we everybody see everybody out here. Um, we everybody see everybody out here. Um, we do have a sponsor we want to thank for do have a sponsor we want to thank for do have a sponsor we want to thank for this event is Harper Collins Christian this event is Harper Collins Christian this event is Harper Collins Christian Publishers. Um they are their mission is Publishers. Um they are their mission is Publishers. Um they are their mission is to inspire the world by meeting the to inspire the world by meeting the to inspire the world by meeting the needs of people with content that needs of people with content that needs of people with content that promotes biblical principles and honors promotes biblical principles and honors promotes biblical principles and honors Jesus Christ. That's a great mission. So Jesus Christ. That's a great mission. So Jesus Christ. That's a great mission. So we're grateful for Harper Collins we're grateful for Harper Collins we're grateful for Harper Collins Christian Publishers for sponsoring this Christian Publishers for sponsoring this Christian Publishers for sponsoring this event. Um I want to just kind of read event. Um I want to just kind of read event. Um I want to just kind of read the introduction. You guys basically the introduction. You guys basically the introduction. You guys basically know what you've signed up for, but just know what you've signed up for, but just know what you've signed up for, but just to set a little bit of the context to set a little bit of the context to set a little bit of the context before I introduce our panelists and get before I introduce our panelists and get before I introduce our panelists and get on with this topic. But uh church on with this topic. But uh church on with this topic. But uh church ministry has dramatically changed in the ministry has dramatically changed in the ministry has dramatically changed in the last 20 years with the rise of social last 20 years with the rise of social last 20 years with the rise of social media of it too is kind of knowing your media of it too is kind of knowing your media of it too is kind of knowing your role. I mean at risen motherhood we even role. I mean at risen motherhood we even role. I mean at risen motherhood we even had a social media policy and it was had a social media policy and it was had a social media policy and it was like hey this is how we're going to like hey this is how we're going to like hey this is how we're going to engage online. This is um the things engage online. This is um the things engage online. This is um the things that we're going to share. This is the

that we're going to share. This is the that we're going to share. This is the tone that we're going to share them in. tone that we're going to share them in. tone that we're going to share them in. Um this is what even came down to like Um this is what even came down to like Um this is what even came down to like constitutes if we're going to block constitutes if we're going to block constitutes if we're going to block someone or if someone's going to be someone or if someone's going to be someone or if someone's going to be restricted. And so I think as a creator, restricted. And so I think as a creator, restricted. And so I think as a creator, especially keeping up with a lot of the especially keeping up with a lot of the especially keeping up with a lot of the big changes and even if you're using it big changes and even if you're using it big changes and even if you're using it just personally, really stepping back just personally, really stepping back just personally, really stepping back and thinking through, okay, who do I and thinking through, okay, who do I and thinking through, okay, who do I want to be online? Like what does it want to be online? Like what does it want to be online? Like what does it look like to be like Christ? What does look like to be like Christ? What does look like to be like Christ? What does it look like? What does it really mean it look like? What does it really mean it look like? What does it really mean to open that welcome mat? And I think to open that welcome mat? And I think to open that welcome mat? And I think that that can give you a lot of freedom that that can give you a lot of freedom that that can give you a lot of freedom as someone who's creating online. And as someone who's creating online. And as someone who's creating online. And then even as a consumer as we see these then even as a consumer as we see these then even as a consumer as we see these platforms change and evolve and it does platforms change and evolve and it does platforms change and evolve and it does feel really hard to keep up with it feel really hard to keep up with it feel really hard to keep up with it thinking through okay how am I being thinking through okay how am I being thinking through okay how am I being really consistent in evaluating these really consistent in evaluating these really consistent in evaluating these platforms and considering you know not platforms and considering you know not platforms and considering you know not only what they're doing to my mind but only what they're doing to my mind but only what they're doing to my mind but like who again who I want to be. So am I like who again who I want to be. So am I like who again who I want to be. So am I muting am I restricting am I muting am I restricting am I muting am I restricting am I consistently going through and saying consistently going through and saying consistently going through and saying this person is unhelpful for me to this person is unhelpful for me to this person is unhelpful for me to follow in this season. There may be follow in this season. There may be follow in this season. There may be other seasons where that person is a other seasons where that person is a other seasons where that person is a great fit for you. And so I think when great fit for you. And so I think when great fit for you. And so I think when we engage on social media instead of we engage on social media instead of we engage on social media instead of thinking of it as a tool, I'm sorry, as thinking of it as a tool, I'm sorry, as thinking of it as a tool, I'm sorry, as a toy, which is how we often engage.

a toy, which is how we often engage. a toy, which is how we often engage. It's entertainment. It's fun. Maybe I'll It's entertainment. It's fun. Maybe I'll It's entertainment. It's fun. Maybe I'll learn something. Maybe I'll get my news. learn something. Maybe I'll get my news. learn something. Maybe I'll get my news. But overall, like I enjoy this. We also But overall, like I enjoy this. We also But overall, like I enjoy this. We also have to really think of it more as a have to really think of it more as a have to really think of it more as a tool and something that we are learning tool and something that we are learning tool and something that we are learning how to use. We're growing in it. We're how to use. We're growing in it. We're how to use. We're growing in it. We're taking continual education courses. You taking continual education courses. You taking continual education courses. You guys are doing great. You're here. and guys are doing great. You're here. and guys are doing great. You're here. and we're but we're really applying we're but we're really applying we're but we're really applying ourselves to making sure that we're ourselves to making sure that we're ourselves to making sure that we're being really thoughtful as we create and being really thoughtful as we create and being really thoughtful as we create and as we consume. So part of what is unique as we consume. So part of what is unique as we consume. So part of what is unique about this session as we're talking about this session as we're talking about this session as we're talking about the the role of social media but about the the role of social media but about the the role of social media but also the relationship to the church and also the relationship to the church and also the relationship to the church and um I'm sure Ruth and Lauri you guys have um I'm sure Ruth and Lauri you guys have um I'm sure Ruth and Lauri you guys have had to think through this. A member of a had to think through this. A member of a had to think through this. A member of a church can have so much more influence church can have so much more influence church can have so much more influence in the aggregate than say the pastors of in the aggregate than say the pastors of in the aggregate than say the pastors of the church that you attend as an the church that you attend as an the church that you attend as an example. Do you do you talk with people example. Do you do you talk with people example. Do you do you talk with people about that or ask for help or about that or ask for help or about that or ask for help or coordinate? How do you each one of you coordinate? How do you each one of you coordinate? How do you each one of you just think through that? just think through that? just think through that? Yeah, I mean definitely I'm very aware Yeah, I mean definitely I'm very aware Yeah, I mean definitely I'm very aware of that reality and how easy that that of that reality and how easy that that of that reality and how easy that that can be for even myself to fall into that can be for even myself to fall into that can be for even myself to fall into that I'm really listening to other people I'm really listening to other people I'm really listening to other people that I follow even more than my pastor.

that I follow even more than my pastor. that I follow even more than my pastor. And I think as a creator, something that And I think as a creator, something that And I think as a creator, something that we think about at Risen Motherhood, we we think about at Risen Motherhood, we we think about at Risen Motherhood, we had a board of directors, you know, who had a board of directors, you know, who had a board of directors, you know, who was Ruth served on that board and was was Ruth served on that board and was was Ruth served on that board and was vital and important to that of just vital and important to that of just vital and important to that of just helping, hey, I know she's watching my helping, hey, I know she's watching my helping, hey, I know she's watching my social media, she's watching my podcast. social media, she's watching my podcast. social media, she's watching my podcast. So, having people that are aware of the So, having people that are aware of the So, having people that are aware of the ministry that you're doing that you ministry that you're doing that you ministry that you're doing that you trust. It doesn't have to be a an trust. It doesn't have to be a an trust. It doesn't have to be a an official board of directors, but um now official board of directors, but um now official board of directors, but um now that I'm sort of autonomous after the that I'm sort of autonomous after the that I'm sort of autonomous after the sunset of Risen Motherhood, u my pastor sunset of Risen Motherhood, u my pastor sunset of Risen Motherhood, u my pastor and elders are very aware of what I'm and elders are very aware of what I'm and elders are very aware of what I'm doing. And I also have a real life doing. And I also have a real life doing. And I also have a real life community of just friends who I know community of just friends who I know community of just friends who I know will call me out if like, hey, that was will call me out if like, hey, that was will call me out if like, hey, that was weird. Um, or I when I have questions weird. Um, or I when I have questions weird. Um, or I when I have questions about, hey, is this theologically sound about, hey, is this theologically sound about, hey, is this theologically sound or is this helpful or is this or is this helpful or is this or is this helpful or is this insensitive? I have a group of friends insensitive? I have a group of friends insensitive? I have a group of friends that I know, hey, I can send that post that I know, hey, I can send that post that I know, hey, I can send that post to them. And I would rather be overly to them. And I would rather be overly to them. And I would rather be overly cautious before I share something and cautious before I share something and cautious before I share something and make sure it's vetted than just send make sure it's vetted than just send make sure it's vetted than just send something out on a whim to have something out on a whim to have something out on a whim to have something published. So, it's certainly something published. So, it's certainly something published. So, it's certainly something that I'm aware of is like, something that I'm aware of is like, something that I'm aware of is like, hey, how is this fitting in um to me as hey, how is this fitting in um to me as hey, how is this fitting in um to me as a person and is it is it matching up to a person and is it is it matching up to a person and is it is it matching up to who I am, my online and my public who I am, my online and my public who I am, my online and my public persona?

persona? persona? Ruth, well, I think you know the issue Ruth, well, I think you know the issue Ruth, well, I think you know the issue of disciplehip, I mean, everyone's being of disciplehip, I mean, everyone's being of disciplehip, I mean, everyone's being discipled. It's it's not even um it's discipled. It's it's not even um it's discipled. It's it's not even um it's not even if you're being discipled by not even if you're being discipled by not even if you're being discipled by social media. Whatever you're consuming social media. Whatever you're consuming social media. Whatever you're consuming is discipling you. And so I think our is discipling you. And so I think our is discipling you. And so I think our responsibility as we think about putting responsibility as we think about putting responsibility as we think about putting out content, whether it's in the form of out content, whether it's in the form of out content, whether it's in the form of a podcast or a YouTube video or you're a podcast or a YouTube video or you're a podcast or a YouTube video or you're writing a line on X, you know, whatever writing a line on X, you know, whatever writing a line on X, you know, whatever it is, ultimately you're speaking words it is, ultimately you're speaking words it is, ultimately you're speaking words that can either edify or not. you know, that can either edify or not. you know, that can either edify or not. you know, you're either pointing people to Jesus you're either pointing people to Jesus you're either pointing people to Jesus or you're pointing people to something or you're pointing people to something or you're pointing people to something else, to yourself or to anything else else, to yourself or to anything else else, to yourself or to anything else that um will cause them to either choose that um will cause them to either choose that um will cause them to either choose to worship the one true God or choose to to worship the one true God or choose to to worship the one true God or choose to worship something else. And so I think worship something else. And so I think worship something else. And so I think that really humbles me and kind of that really humbles me and kind of that really humbles me and kind of convicts my heart to want to be very convicts my heart to want to be very convicts my heart to want to be very tethered to the authority of God's word, tethered to the authority of God's word, tethered to the authority of God's word, really tethered to the authorities in my really tethered to the authorities in my really tethered to the authorities in my life, but also as Laura said, to really life, but also as Laura said, to really life, but also as Laura said, to really seek to not do things in isolation. It's seek to not do things in isolation. It's seek to not do things in isolation. It's not that wow, social media is my thing not that wow, social media is my thing not that wow, social media is my thing and I'm just going to go off and I'm and I'm just going to go off and I'm and I'm just going to go off and I'm still part of the body of Christ and I still part of the body of Christ and I still part of the body of Christ and I belong to a local church. I am under the belong to a local church. I am under the belong to a local church. I am under the authority of God's word. And I need to authority of God's word. And I need to authority of God's word. And I need to make sure that everything I say and do make sure that everything I say and do make sure that everything I say and do is not just this thing that I'm is not just this thing that I'm is not just this thing that I'm building. It's actually part of the body building. It's actually part of the body building. It's actually part of the body of Christ. And and I want um you know I of Christ. And and I want um you know I of Christ. And and I want um you know I I'm encouraged Kyle that you know you I'm encouraged Kyle that you know you I'm encouraged Kyle that you know you are aware of you know people in your are aware of you know people in your are aware of you know people in your life and you're on a podcast with others life and you're on a podcast with others life and you're on a podcast with others who are serving in that way so that who are serving in that way so that who are serving in that way so that you're not isolated away from knowing

you're not isolated away from knowing you're not isolated away from knowing like for example what the women in your like for example what the women in your like for example what the women in your congregation. congregation. congregation. Yeah. Talk about that a little bit more. Yeah. Talk about that a little bit more. Yeah. Talk about that a little bit more. Kyle, you're you're a pastor and no Kyle, you're you're a pastor and no Kyle, you're you're a pastor and no doubt the men, women, youth, I mean, doubt the men, women, youth, I mean, doubt the men, women, youth, I mean, they're influenced in your church by by they're influenced in your church by by they're influenced in your church by by social media, by YouTube, by podcasts. social media, by YouTube, by podcasts. social media, by YouTube, by podcasts. What sort of influence do you see that What sort of influence do you see that What sort of influence do you see that happening? And how do you try to happening? And how do you try to happening? And how do you try to encourage it in the best possible encourage it in the best possible encourage it in the best possible directions? Yeah. Well, I I think what directions? Yeah. Well, I I think what directions? Yeah. Well, I I think what Laura was saying about seeing social Laura was saying about seeing social Laura was saying about seeing social media as not just a toy, but a tool. You media as not just a toy, but a tool. You media as not just a toy, but a tool. You know, I think often times we have this know, I think often times we have this know, I think often times we have this conversation about social media. We talk conversation about social media. We talk conversation about social media. We talk about it like we wouldn't talk about about it like we wouldn't talk about about it like we wouldn't talk about anything else. Like if I asked you, is a anything else. Like if I asked you, is a anything else. Like if I asked you, is a chainsaw good or bad? You'd say, well, chainsaw good or bad? You'd say, well, chainsaw good or bad? You'd say, well, what are you going to use it for, right? what are you going to use it for, right? what are you going to use it for, right? If it's to cut down a tree, then it's a If it's to cut down a tree, then it's a If it's to cut down a tree, then it's a pretty good option. If it's to cut a pretty good option. If it's to cut a pretty good option. If it's to cut a cake, you know, maybe maybe less so, cake, you know, maybe maybe less so, cake, you know, maybe maybe less so, right? Better better tools for cutting a right? Better better tools for cutting a right? Better better tools for cutting a cake. So, I think oftentimes rather than cake. So, I think oftentimes rather than cake. So, I think oftentimes rather than just saying, hey, social media, yes or just saying, hey, social media, yes or just saying, hey, social media, yes or no, good or bad. What are you there for? no, good or bad. What are you there for? no, good or bad. What are you there for? What are you trying to do? So I think What are you trying to do? So I think What are you trying to do? So I think encouraging among members and modeling encouraging among members and modeling encouraging among members and modeling among your leadership that you don't among your leadership that you don't among your leadership that you don't want passive participation, you want want passive participation, you want want passive participation, you want active participation, thoughtful, active participation, thoughtful, active participation, thoughtful, reflective participation when it comes reflective participation when it comes reflective participation when it comes to the social media channels that you're to the social media channels that you're to the social media channels that you're on. Why are you there? Right? Like uh on. Why are you there? Right? Like uh on. Why are you there? Right? Like uh you know, I think that one of the things you know, I think that one of the things you know, I think that one of the things that's helpful to ask of any social that's helpful to ask of any social that's helpful to ask of any social media channel is just why am I here?

media channel is just why am I here? media channel is just why am I here? It's like showing up at a party where It's like showing up at a party where It's like showing up at a party where maybe not everybody there is somebody maybe not everybody there is somebody maybe not everybody there is somebody you'd associate with. Why? Like why have you'd associate with. Why? Like why have you'd associate with. Why? Like why have you shown up here? what are you trying you shown up here? what are you trying you shown up here? what are you trying to accomplish in this space I think is a to accomplish in this space I think is a to accomplish in this space I think is a really valuable conversation. I think really valuable conversation. I think really valuable conversation. I think when you ask about what is the when you ask about what is the when you ask about what is the predominant influence because like to to predominant influence because like to to predominant influence because like to to ask the question is social media ask the question is social media ask the question is social media influencing the people in your church is influencing the people in your church is influencing the people in your church is is really you know it's kind of trivial is really you know it's kind of trivial is really you know it's kind of trivial because it's so obvious that it's yes because it's so obvious that it's yes because it's so obvious that it's yes but how I think one of the pre-minent but how I think one of the pre-minent but how I think one of the pre-minent ways that we've seen it play out in the ways that we've seen it play out in the ways that we've seen it play out in the life of our local church and I'm sure life of our local church and I'm sure life of our local church and I'm sure other local church leaders are seeing other local church leaders are seeing other local church leaders are seeing this as well and if you haven't I assure this as well and if you haven't I assure this as well and if you haven't I assure you that you will is that it's the you that you will is that it's the you that you will is that it's the detaching of authority from local detaching of authority from local detaching of authority from local proximate relationships. Um, and this is proximate relationships. Um, and this is proximate relationships. Um, and this is what some I can see some of you nodding what some I can see some of you nodding what some I can see some of you nodding already because you're living this in already because you're living this in already because you're living this in your small group or the church that your small group or the church that your small group or the church that you're in where somebody is going to you're in where somebody is going to you're in where somebody is going to come to you and it's going to be clear come to you and it's going to be clear come to you and it's going to be clear that they're invoking an authority that that they're invoking an authority that that they're invoking an authority that has incredible influence on their life has incredible influence on their life has incredible influence on their life and they expect for you to feel the same and they expect for you to feel the same and they expect for you to feel the same degree of influence in your life or to degree of influence in your life or to degree of influence in your life or to give it the same degree of credibility give it the same degree of credibility give it the same degree of credibility that they have. And I think that is that they have. And I think that is that they have. And I think that is really where it gets tricky. um where uh really where it gets tricky. um where uh really where it gets tricky. um where uh people are trying to figure out people are trying to figure out people are trying to figure out um kind of a selective submission to um kind of a selective submission to um kind of a selective submission to authority and social media allows for authority and social media allows for authority and social media allows for that. I can have the authoritative that. I can have the authoritative that. I can have the authoritative voices in my life that I want to have voices in my life that I want to have voices in my life that I want to have and when they say something I don't want and when they say something I don't want and when they say something I don't want them to say, I can turn them off. That's them to say, I can turn them off. That's them to say, I can turn them off. That's different from meaningful pastoral different from meaningful pastoral different from meaningful pastoral relationships in the life of a local relationships in the life of a local relationships in the life of a local church. This is an open question.

church. This is an open question. church. This is an open question. Everybody can jump in on this one up Everybody can jump in on this one up Everybody can jump in on this one up here. I I asked this to students in a here. I I asked this to students in a here. I I asked this to students in a class that I was teaching at B and class that I was teaching at B and class that I was teaching at B and Divinity School earlier this earlier Divinity School earlier this earlier Divinity School earlier this earlier this year in cultural apologetics. They this year in cultural apologetics. They this year in cultural apologetics. They didn't have an answer to it. I don't didn't have an answer to it. I don't didn't have an answer to it. I don't have an answer to it, but I'm sure one have an answer to it, but I'm sure one have an answer to it, but I'm sure one of our panelists at least here we'll of our panelists at least here we'll of our panelists at least here we'll have an answer. Way to stack the deck, have an answer. Way to stack the deck, have an answer. Way to stack the deck, Colin. Yeah, exactly. Um I can't figure Colin. Yeah, exactly. Um I can't figure Colin. Yeah, exactly. Um I can't figure out why Christians have such a default out why Christians have such a default out why Christians have such a default trust in podcasters as trust in podcasters as trust in podcasters as authorities in comparison to authorities in comparison to authorities in comparison to pastors. Like I'm I'm just trying to pastors. Like I'm I'm just trying to pastors. Like I'm I'm just trying to understand the reflexive instinct that understand the reflexive instinct that understand the reflexive instinct that says this person over here on my podcast says this person over here on my podcast says this person over here on my podcast is definitely telling me the truth is definitely telling me the truth is definitely telling me the truth because I know that whatever my pastor because I know that whatever my pastor because I know that whatever my pastor is saying must be compromised for XYZ is saying must be compromised for XYZ is saying must be compromised for XYZ reasons like institutionally reasons like institutionally reasons like institutionally compromised, financially compromised. I compromised, financially compromised. I compromised, financially compromised. I just can't crack this question. I'm just can't crack this question. I'm just can't crack this question. I'm trying to understand why people and I trying to understand why people and I trying to understand why people and I think we can speak with some think we can speak with some think we can speak with some inexperience with this. Podcasters are inexperience with this. Podcasters are inexperience with this. Podcasters are very financially influenced. I mean, very financially influenced. I mean, very financially influenced. I mean, like they can they can be. I mean, they like they can they can be. I mean, they like they can they can be. I mean, they don't have to be, but I'm just saying don't have to be, but I'm just saying don't have to be, but I'm just saying plenty of people will be happy to lie to plenty of people will be happy to lie to plenty of people will be happy to lie to you on a podcast to make a lot of money.

you on a podcast to make a lot of money. you on a podcast to make a lot of money. I'm not quite sure why that doesn't I'm not quite sure why that doesn't I'm not quite sure why that doesn't register with people. Go ahead, Ruth. register with people. Go ahead, Ruth. register with people. Go ahead, Ruth. Well, I I have two thoughts. I think on Well, I I have two thoughts. I think on Well, I I have two thoughts. I think on both ends. One is that podcasters or any both ends. One is that podcasters or any both ends. One is that podcasters or any social media account isn't requiring social media account isn't requiring social media account isn't requiring something of you. Yeah. You don't have something of you. Yeah. You don't have something of you. Yeah. You don't have to you can walk away. You can like turn to you can walk away. You can like turn to you can walk away. You can like turn it off halfway through and get on with it off halfway through and get on with it off halfway through and get on with your day. But if you belong to a local your day. But if you belong to a local your day. But if you belong to a local body and you're a member of that church, body and you're a member of that church, body and you're a member of that church, there is a commitment there. There is a there is a commitment there. There is a there is a commitment there. There is a sacrifice. There is a choosing to be sacrifice. There is a choosing to be sacrifice. There is a choosing to be part of the body. And that is it's part of the body. And that is it's part of the body. And that is it's costly. So, I think for one thing, it's costly. So, I think for one thing, it's costly. So, I think for one thing, it's not costly to pick and choose, like Kyle not costly to pick and choose, like Kyle not costly to pick and choose, like Kyle was saying, who you're gonna let in and was saying, who you're gonna let in and was saying, who you're gonna let in and or just a friendship is that way, too. or just a friendship is that way, too. or just a friendship is that way, too. But then the side of it is that I also But then the side of it is that I also But then the side of it is that I also think a lot of times if you're let's say think a lot of times if you're let's say think a lot of times if you're let's say at a really large church, you could be at a really large church, you could be at a really large church, you could be almost looking at your pastor from a almost looking at your pastor from a almost looking at your pastor from a screen or from another the overflow room screen or from another the overflow room screen or from another the overflow room or it's from a distance and you're not or it's from a distance and you're not or it's from a distance and you're not hearing that person have coffee with you hearing that person have coffee with you hearing that person have coffee with you every day. I mean, you might be lucky every day. I mean, you might be lucky every day. I mean, you might be lucky enough to have coffee with your your enough to have coffee with your your enough to have coffee with your your leaders and you should be, you know, leaders and you should be, you know, leaders and you should be, you know, with your small group leader or your with your small group leader or your with your small group leader or your pastor or your pastoral team. But I pastor or your pastoral team. But I pastor or your pastoral team. But I think something that happens with social think something that happens with social think something that happens with social media or with podcasting or anyone whose media or with podcasting or anyone whose media or with podcasting or anyone whose voice is in a in your ear or on your voice is in a in your ear or on your voice is in a in your ear or on your phone is that they're sharing bits of phone is that they're sharing bits of phone is that they're sharing bits of their life. It feels like you have their life. It feels like you have their life. It feels like you have access and you feel it's an intimacy, access and you feel it's an intimacy, access and you feel it's an intimacy, right? And the danger there is that you right? And the danger there is that you right? And the danger there is that you grow so you grow so trusting of that grow so you grow so trusting of that grow so you grow so trusting of that person because you feel like you do life person because you feel like you do life person because you feel like you do life with them. I regularly hear women say, with them. I regularly hear women say, with them. I regularly hear women say, "Ruth, I feel like I really know you.

"Ruth, I feel like I really know you. "Ruth, I feel like I really know you. Like you're in my head. Like you you Like you're in my head. Like you you Like you're in my head. Like you you don't know it yet, but we're like best don't know it yet, but we're like best don't know it yet, but we're like best friends." And it's it's really sweet and friends." And it's it's really sweet and friends." And it's it's really sweet and I love hearing that. And I and I'm glad I love hearing that. And I and I'm glad I love hearing that. And I and I'm glad that my writing feels personal and that my writing feels personal and that my writing feels personal and accessible like that, but accessible like that, but accessible like that, but ultimately I'm not actually sharing my ultimately I'm not actually sharing my ultimately I'm not actually sharing my life with the people who read my book. life with the people who read my book. life with the people who read my book. That that ultimately you I I hope I'm That that ultimately you I I hope I'm That that ultimately you I I hope I'm the same person. and I try to be the the same person. and I try to be the the same person. and I try to be the same exact person at home or when I'm same exact person at home or when I'm same exact person at home or when I'm online, but you're not there when I'm online, but you're not there when I'm online, but you're not there when I'm fighting with my husband, right? You're fighting with my husband, right? You're fighting with my husband, right? You're not there when I'm raising those six not there when I'm raising those six not there when I'm raising those six crazy boys, you know? And so, at the end crazy boys, you know? And so, at the end crazy boys, you know? And so, at the end of the day, it's even though it's of the day, it's even though it's of the day, it's even though it's imaginary, I mean, there there's a sense imaginary, I mean, there there's a sense imaginary, I mean, there there's a sense that you have utter access and that that you have utter access and that that you have utter access and that person who's sharing their life on person who's sharing their life on person who's sharing their life on social media is transparent and real. I social media is transparent and real. I social media is transparent and real. I think that's I think too it's just like think that's I think too it's just like think that's I think too it's just like calls to like you know you can feel like calls to like you know you can feel like calls to like you know you can feel like well this person has experienced a well this person has experienced a well this person has experienced a miscarriage and so have I and maybe your miscarriage and so have I and maybe your miscarriage and so have I and maybe your pastor hasn't in their in their marriage pastor hasn't in their in their marriage pastor hasn't in their in their marriage had a miscarriage and um and so you feel had a miscarriage and um and so you feel had a miscarriage and um and so you feel like so deeply connected because it's a like so deeply connected because it's a like so deeply connected because it's a shared story and podcasters tend to just shared story and podcasters tend to just shared story and podcasters tend to just tell a lot of stories. I mean, that's tell a lot of stories. I mean, that's tell a lot of stories. I mean, that's more of what it's about, unless you're more of what it's about, unless you're more of what it's about, unless you're listening to sermons on podcasts. But, listening to sermons on podcasts. But, listening to sermons on podcasts. But, um, I do think like that's an element um, I do think like that's an element um, I do think like that's an element where I see that especially with women where I see that especially with women where I see that especially with women where it's that storytelling that's like where it's that storytelling that's like where it's that storytelling that's like my heart sees their heart and I finally my heart sees their heart and I finally my heart sees their heart and I finally feel seen. I have felt alone and finally feel seen. I have felt alone and finally feel seen. I have felt alone and finally someone is saying they've been through someone is saying they've been through someone is saying they've been through the same thing. And it is is the same thing. And it is is the same thing. And it is is unreasonable and impossible to ask our unreasonable and impossible to ask our unreasonable and impossible to ask our pastors to be all things for us. But I pastors to be all things for us. But I pastors to be all things for us. But I do think that's why we're seeing some of do think that's why we're seeing some of do think that's why we're seeing some of that where um I think we have to break

that where um I think we have to break that where um I think we have to break through that barrier of of women really through that barrier of of women really through that barrier of of women really saying I have to get my information here saying I have to get my information here saying I have to get my information here but that podcaster does not know their but that podcaster does not know their but that podcaster does not know their actual life. You know, they don't know actual life. You know, they don't know actual life. You know, they don't know their actual children, their actual their actual children, their actual their actual children, their actual husband, their actual community. And so husband, their actual community. And so husband, their actual community. And so a lot of these social media people are a lot of these social media people are a lot of these social media people are offering prescriptive advice to someone offering prescriptive advice to someone offering prescriptive advice to someone in their life where that person lives in in their life where that person lives in in their life where that person lives in New York and you know the listener is New York and you know the listener is New York and you know the listener is living in rural Iowa and it just it living in rural Iowa and it just it living in rural Iowa and it just it doesn't work. It doesn't match. But doesn't work. It doesn't match. But doesn't work. It doesn't match. But that's where we have to continue to that's where we have to continue to that's where we have to continue to build up discernment and helping people build up discernment and helping people build up discernment and helping people see, okay, I can pull this as helpful. see, okay, I can pull this as helpful. see, okay, I can pull this as helpful. Um, because it is a unique experience. Um, because it is a unique experience. Um, because it is a unique experience. This person has been through it and they This person has been through it and they This person has been through it and they are providing some really helpful niche are providing some really helpful niche are providing some really helpful niche information for me, but I have to like information for me, but I have to like information for me, but I have to like put that in the broader category and put that in the broader category and put that in the broader category and context of the church that I'm in and context of the church that I'm in and context of the church that I'm in and the place that I go to and the place the place that I go to and the place the place that I go to and the place that I live. And I think that's where we that I live. And I think that's where we that I live. And I think that's where we have to keep working with our have to keep working with our have to keep working with our disciplehip. disciplehip. disciplehip. Colin, anything to add? No, other than Colin, anything to add? No, other than Colin, anything to add? No, other than just social media is a great place for just social media is a great place for just social media is a great place for connection and a really bad place for connection and a really bad place for connection and a really bad place for belonging and those are different belonging and those are different belonging and those are different things. Um, you can connect online very things. Um, you can connect online very things. Um, you can connect online very easily. You can connect with a lot of easily. You can connect with a lot of easily. You can connect with a lot of other people. You just can't belong other people. You just can't belong other people. You just can't belong there. Um, and uh Sher Turkl MIT there. Um, and uh Sher Turkl MIT there. Um, and uh Sher Turkl MIT sociologist wrote a book years ago now, sociologist wrote a book years ago now, sociologist wrote a book years ago now, way ahead of its time called Alone way ahead of its time called Alone way ahead of its time called Alone Together. Um, and in that book she just Together. Um, and in that book she just Together. Um, and in that book she just talks about how we're we're more talks about how we're we're more talks about how we're we're more connected than ever and more fearful of connected than ever and more fearful of connected than ever and more fearful of intimacy and vulnerability than we've intimacy and vulnerability than we've intimacy and vulnerability than we've ever been. And she nails uh she nails ever been. And she nails uh she nails ever been. And she nails uh she nails it. I mean, I just think it's really it. I mean, I just think it's really it. I mean, I just think it's really perceptive. Um, but I I I would say one perceptive. Um, but I I I would say one perceptive. Um, but I I I would say one of the things that I'll often um tell of the things that I'll often um tell of the things that I'll often um tell members in our congregation, as somebody members in our congregation, as somebody members in our congregation, as somebody who's creating, I mean, I'm creating who's creating, I mean, I'm creating who's creating, I mean, I'm creating resources for churches and people resources for churches and people resources for churches and people outside of my local congregation. We'll outside of my local congregation. We'll outside of my local congregation. We'll talk more about that here in a minute,

talk more about that here in a minute, talk more about that here in a minute, but one of the things I'll tell our our but one of the things I'll tell our our but one of the things I'll tell our our folks when I can tell that they're folks when I can tell that they're folks when I can tell that they're really getting um super invested in what really getting um super invested in what really getting um super invested in what I would call a digital connection, and I would call a digital connection, and I would call a digital connection, and that's that that's what's happening that's that that's what's happening that's that that's what's happening here. Um is I I'll often say, "Hey, here. Um is I I'll often say, "Hey, here. Um is I I'll often say, "Hey, listen. um your favorite influencer is listen. um your favorite influencer is listen. um your favorite influencer is not going to come visit you in the not going to come visit you in the not going to come visit you in the hospital. hospital. hospital. They're they're not going to be there. They're they're not going to be there. They're they're not going to be there. Um and it doesn't mean that they're not Um and it doesn't mean that they're not Um and it doesn't mean that they're not making stuff that's really good for you. making stuff that's really good for you. making stuff that's really good for you. I I believe that they could be. It I I believe that they could be. It I I believe that they could be. It doesn't mean that you can't profit from doesn't mean that you can't profit from doesn't mean that you can't profit from the work that they're they're writing. I the work that they're they're writing. I the work that they're they're writing. I I hope that you will. I have. Um and if I hope that you will. I have. Um and if I hope that you will. I have. Um and if we can only from profit from people that we can only from profit from people that we can only from profit from people that we know personally, then we'll be our we know personally, then we'll be our we know personally, then we'll be our imagination will be impoverished. But if imagination will be impoverished. But if imagination will be impoverished. But if we only try to connect with people we we only try to connect with people we we only try to connect with people we don't know personally, then our don't know personally, then our don't know personally, then our relationships will be impoverished. It's relationships will be impoverished. It's relationships will be impoverished. It's it's a balance. It's a balance. And I it's a balance. It's a balance. And I it's a balance. It's a balance. And I think we've probably my stakes I'm a think we've probably my stakes I'm a think we've probably my stakes I'm a little less rosy on social media and little less rosy on social media and little less rosy on social media and podcasting. But I think that a podcasting. But I think that a podcasting. But I think that a redemptive approach knows the difference redemptive approach knows the difference redemptive approach knows the difference between connection and belonging and can between connection and belonging and can between connection and belonging and can disciple in that direction. You gave disciple in that direction. You gave disciple in that direction. You gave away our conference titling of a live away our conference titling of a live away our conference titling of a live together. Oh, I did. Well, I was just together. Oh, I did. Well, I was just together. Oh, I did. Well, I was just saying alone together to live together.

saying alone together to live together. saying alone together to live together. There we go. There you go. So um I There we go. There you go. So um I There we go. There you go. So um I that's part of the the challenge of the that's part of the the challenge of the that's part of the the challenge of the gospel coalition is that we I mean gospel coalition is that we I mean gospel coalition is that we I mean thankfully we have this event which can thankfully we have this event which can thankfully we have this event which can be face to face but a lot of people of be face to face but a lot of people of be face to face but a lot of people of course meet us online our staff don't course meet us online our staff don't course meet us online our staff don't live together in places but it's one live together in places but it's one live together in places but it's one reason why we try to emphasize so much reason why we try to emphasize so much reason why we try to emphasize so much that if we're doing our resources the that if we're doing our resources the that if we're doing our resources the way that we're trying to it's sending way that we're trying to it's sending way that we're trying to it's sending you back into your churches where you you back into your churches where you you back into your churches where you can belong and into those relationships can belong and into those relationships can belong and into those relationships and friendships where there can be and friendships where there can be and friendships where there can be two-way exchange and there can be two-way exchange and there can be two-way exchange and there can be accountability and exhortation and accountability and exhortation and accountability and exhortation and encouragement and visiting you in the encouragement and visiting you in the encouragement and visiting you in the hospital and things like that. Um, let's hospital and things like that. Um, let's hospital and things like that. Um, let's continue though on the theme of just continue though on the theme of just continue though on the theme of just people who do this well on social media. people who do this well on social media. people who do this well on social media. Let's talk about evangelism and Let's talk about evangelism and Let's talk about evangelism and disciplehip especially, but who are some disciplehip especially, but who are some disciplehip especially, but who are some folks because I think I think would get folks because I think I think would get folks because I think I think would get us in a lot more trouble to start us in a lot more trouble to start us in a lot more trouble to start talking about all the people who do it talking about all the people who do it talking about all the people who do it poorly. So, let's let's say somebody poorly. So, let's let's say somebody poorly. So, let's let's say somebody come Exactly. Pass. So, let's say come Exactly. Pass. So, let's say come Exactly. Pass. So, let's say somebody comes into your church, your somebody comes into your church, your somebody comes into your church, your church leader, whether you're a women's church leader, whether you're a women's church leader, whether you're a women's ministry leader, you're a Bible study ministry leader, you're a Bible study ministry leader, you're a Bible study leader, a small group leader, um you leader, a small group leader, um you leader, a small group leader, um you know, a pastor, somebody comes to you know, a pastor, somebody comes to you know, a pastor, somebody comes to you and they're bringing like pastor or you and they're bringing like pastor or you and they're bringing like pastor or you know, friend, have you heard of this know, friend, have you heard of this know, friend, have you heard of this person before? And you're thinking, person before? And you're thinking, person before? And you're thinking, uhoh, this isn't good. What would be uhoh, this isn't good. What would be uhoh, this isn't good. What would be some people instead of this person, try some people instead of this person, try some people instead of this person, try these people instead. They'll send you these people instead. They'll send you these people instead. They'll send you in the right direction. Who would be in the right direction. Who would be in the right direction. Who would be some people you'd commend? Well, I mean, some people you'd commend? Well, I mean, some people you'd commend? Well, I mean, I I've pointed people in our I I've pointed people in our I I've pointed people in our congregation to both res like both uh congregation to both res like both uh congregation to both res like both uh Risen Motherhood and both Ruth Risen Motherhood and both Ruth Risen Motherhood and both Ruth resources. So, I'd be remiss to not

resources. So, I'd be remiss to not resources. So, I'd be remiss to not point out both of them. Um, beyond that, point out both of them. Um, beyond that, point out both of them. Um, beyond that, I would say there's a a couple of I would say there's a a couple of I would say there's a a couple of standouts. I've really profited and I standouts. I've really profited and I standouts. I've really profited and I direct a lot of our people to Amy Kate direct a lot of our people to Amy Kate direct a lot of our people to Amy Kate Guanette. She's doing Tiny theologians. Guanette. She's doing Tiny theologians. Guanette. She's doing Tiny theologians. If you've got young kiddos or you're If you've got young kiddos or you're If you've got young kiddos or you're working with families of young kiddos working with families of young kiddos working with families of young kiddos and you're thinking, okay, how do like I and you're thinking, okay, how do like I and you're thinking, okay, how do like I I want to get into a space where I'm I want to get into a space where I'm I want to get into a space where I'm getting some really great resources that getting some really great resources that getting some really great resources that are aimed at kiddos. Um, Tiny are aimed at kiddos. Um, Tiny are aimed at kiddos. Um, Tiny theologians has done wonderful work and theologians has done wonderful work and theologians has done wonderful work and I'm so grateful for Amy Kate's work on I'm so grateful for Amy Kate's work on I'm so grateful for Amy Kate's work on that. And then on a pastoral leadership that. And then on a pastoral leadership that. And then on a pastoral leadership front, um, uh, Luke Simmons and Seth front, um, uh, Luke Simmons and Seth front, um, uh, Luke Simmons and Seth Trout with, uh, King Culture Faithful Trout with, uh, King Culture Faithful Trout with, uh, King Culture Faithful and Fruitful Ministries, they're based and Fruitful Ministries, they're based and Fruitful Ministries, they're based out of Arizona and they've been doing out of Arizona and they've been doing out of Arizona and they've been doing fantastic work as well. And I think fantastic work as well. And I think fantastic work as well. And I think doing resourcing in a space that's doing resourcing in a space that's doing resourcing in a space that's locally embedded which I want to talk locally embedded which I want to talk locally embedded which I want to talk about at some point at college. Well, go about at some point at college. Well, go about at some point at college. Well, go for it now. Let's just let's take that for it now. Let's just let's take that for it now. Let's just let's take that direction. Cut back to the Are you sure? direction. Cut back to the Are you sure? direction. Cut back to the Are you sure? Yeah, go for it. Um because I I think Yeah, go for it. Um because I I think Yeah, go for it. Um because I I think this is key and it was one of the this is key and it was one of the this is key and it was one of the questions and I thought it was a really questions and I thought it was a really questions and I thought it was a really great question. Um this is something great question. Um this is something great question. Um this is something that that I know I've seen and maybe that that I know I've seen and maybe that that I know I've seen and maybe y'all have as well, but I think when you y'all have as well, but I think when you y'all have as well, but I think when you think about building content, maybe some think about building content, maybe some think about building content, maybe some of you are in here and you're like, I of you are in here and you're like, I of you are in here and you're like, I want to write for a wider audience. My want to write for a wider audience. My want to write for a wider audience. My church wants to do digital resources.

church wants to do digital resources. church wants to do digital resources. I'm I'm in a ministry that's doing I'm I'm in a ministry that's doing I'm I'm in a ministry that's doing digital disciplehip resources. I I think digital disciplehip resources. I I think digital disciplehip resources. I I think the best resources that work wellwide the best resources that work wellwide the best resources that work wellwide start off local. They they begin there. start off local. They they begin there. start off local. They they begin there. They're built for a local audience. They're built for a local audience. They're built for a local audience. Oftentimes that's going to be a church Oftentimes that's going to be a church Oftentimes that's going to be a church audience or a specific place and a audience or a specific place and a audience or a specific place and a specific people. I I think the people specific people. I I think the people specific people. I I think the people that I would send you to most often are that I would send you to most often are that I would send you to most often are people that I know are local people that I know are local people that I know are local practitioners. And I'll tell you, I practitioners. And I'll tell you, I practitioners. And I'll tell you, I think there is a qualitative difference think there is a qualitative difference think there is a qualitative difference um in the temperament, the substance, um in the temperament, the substance, um in the temperament, the substance, the tone of those who are actually the tone of those who are actually the tone of those who are actually working this out locally and then working this out locally and then working this out locally and then panning out to distribute it widely and panning out to distribute it widely and panning out to distribute it widely and the inverse. I don't think it works well the inverse. I don't think it works well the inverse. I don't think it works well the opposite direction. Um and I think the opposite direction. Um and I think the opposite direction. Um and I think the difference between platform that's the difference between platform that's the difference between platform that's kind of oh maybe self agrandizing and a kind of oh maybe self agrandizing and a kind of oh maybe self agrandizing and a real heart to make an impact in a real heart to make an impact in a real heart to make an impact in a broader space is are you willing to broader space is are you willing to broader space is are you willing to flesh this out locally? And so if you're flesh this out locally? And so if you're flesh this out locally? And so if you're if you're looking to build content, if you're looking to build content, if you're looking to build content, please don't minimize building out please don't minimize building out please don't minimize building out content for a church of 150 people. content for a church of 150 people. content for a church of 150 people. Distributing it widely and anybody who Distributing it widely and anybody who Distributing it widely and anybody who profits beyond that 150 people, they profits beyond that 150 people, they profits beyond that 150 people, they will profit more because you're really will profit more because you're really will profit more because you're really narrowing it to people you know well, narrowing it to people you know well, narrowing it to people you know well, you know well. So, well, the the chapter you know well. So, well, the the chapter you know well. So, well, the the chapter that I did in scrolling ourselves to that I did in scrolling ourselves to that I did in scrolling ourselves to death on preaching was ends in the place death on preaching was ends in the place death on preaching was ends in the place of saying you're better off preaching, of saying you're better off preaching, of saying you're better off preaching, teaching, writing to a specific group of teaching, writing to a specific group of teaching, writing to a specific group of people. And then if the Lord blesses people. And then if the Lord blesses people. And then if the Lord blesses that more broadly, that's that's that more broadly, that's that's that more broadly, that's that's wonderful. But the alternative is that wonderful. But the alternative is that wonderful. But the alternative is that once you start thinking about everyone, once you start thinking about everyone, once you start thinking about everyone, it's very hard to to to not just think

it's very hard to to to not just think it's very hard to to to not just think about no one. Yeah, that's right. Um, about no one. Yeah, that's right. Um, about no one. Yeah, that's right. Um, and that that weakens the teaching and that that weakens the teaching and that that weakens the teaching considerably and it changes the considerably and it changes the considerably and it changes the relationship quite a bit. And speaking relationship quite a bit. And speaking relationship quite a bit. And speaking as somebody who spent most of my career as somebody who spent most of my career as somebody who spent most of my career in in digital content creation, sounds in in digital content creation, sounds in in digital content creation, sounds so and whatever. Um, is it it feels so and whatever. Um, is it it feels so and whatever. Um, is it it feels sometimes the the imagery that comes to sometimes the the imagery that comes to sometimes the the imagery that comes to mind is it feels like hand cranking mind is it feels like hand cranking mind is it feels like hand cranking water from a river into an water from a river into an water from a river into an ocean. You know, like it's it just ocean. You know, like it's it just ocean. You know, like it's it just there's an ocean of content out there. there's an ocean of content out there. there's an ocean of content out there. And so thinking of thinking primarily And so thinking of thinking primarily And so thinking of thinking primarily about the people that you can see that about the people that you can see that about the people that you can see that you run into a lot with your content and you run into a lot with your content and you run into a lot with your content and I'm sure that's probably how all of our I'm sure that's probably how all of our I'm sure that's probably how all of our ministry started. I would guess in there ministry started. I would guess in there ministry started. I would guess in there I think if you're really plugged in and I think if you're really plugged in and I think if you're really plugged in and you are living that out the content in you are living that out the content in you are living that out the content in your small group or you know in my case your small group or you know in my case your small group or you know in my case I'm setting up chairs for like 50 people I'm setting up chairs for like 50 people I'm setting up chairs for like 50 people in my little church. you know, if if if in my little church. you know, if if if in my little church. you know, if if if you're working that out locally, then if you're working that out locally, then if you're working that out locally, then if you get a really bad response to a post you get a really bad response to a post you get a really bad response to a post or it doesn't go viral or the algorithm or it doesn't go viral or the algorithm or it doesn't go viral or the algorithm hates you or people don't download that hates you or people don't download that hates you or people don't download that one podcast, then it just doesn't hurt.

one podcast, then it just doesn't hurt. one podcast, then it just doesn't hurt. It doesn't it doesn't bother you that It doesn't it doesn't bother you that It doesn't it doesn't bother you that much because it's that wasn't your much because it's that wasn't your much because it's that wasn't your ultimate end goal. Because I think there ultimate end goal. Because I think there ultimate end goal. Because I think there are times when you are creating content are times when you are creating content are times when you are creating content that you're thinking, okay, I've been that you're thinking, okay, I've been that you're thinking, okay, I've been entrusted with an audience and that entrusted with an audience and that entrusted with an audience and that audience goes beyond the scope of my audience goes beyond the scope of my audience goes beyond the scope of my local church, but it's where my heart local church, but it's where my heart local church, but it's where my heart posture is, right? It's me saying, okay, posture is, right? It's me saying, okay, posture is, right? It's me saying, okay, fundamentally, I know that I have impact fundamentally, I know that I have impact fundamentally, I know that I have impact beyond whether or not it reaches beyond whether or not it reaches beyond whether or not it reaches hundreds of thousands of people. That's hundreds of thousands of people. That's hundreds of thousands of people. That's not the only way to measure this. And I not the only way to measure this. And I not the only way to measure this. And I think this kind of reminds me going back think this kind of reminds me going back think this kind of reminds me going back to your question of like, hey, who do we to your question of like, hey, who do we to your question of like, hey, who do we follow? Um there is this element with follow? Um there is this element with follow? Um there is this element with that that I'm always hesitant to give that that I'm always hesitant to give that that I'm always hesitant to give names because people change all the names because people change all the names because people change all the time. Not that that Amy will or any time. Not that that Amy will or any time. Not that that Amy will or any anybody will, but um I think teaching anybody will, but um I think teaching anybody will, but um I think teaching people to understand like what do we people to understand like what do we people to understand like what do we look for in the people that we follow look for in the people that we follow look for in the people that we follow because there are so many wonderful because there are so many wonderful because there are so many wonderful people producing incredible content that people producing incredible content that people producing incredible content that have 800 followers, have 5,000 have 800 followers, have 5,000 have 800 followers, have 5,000 followers, but they're doing great followers, but they're doing great followers, but they're doing great faithful work. And how do you spot those faithful work. And how do you spot those faithful work. And how do you spot those people? And a lot of times those kind of people? And a lot of times those kind of people? And a lot of times those kind of micro niche influencers, I just have micro niche influencers, I just have micro niche influencers, I just have been amazed by the humility that they're been amazed by the humility that they're been amazed by the humility that they're displaying. Um maybe they're not growing displaying. Um maybe they're not growing displaying. Um maybe they're not growing because they're not using some of those because they're not using some of those because they're not using some of those tactics that allow someone to grow tactics that allow someone to grow tactics that allow someone to grow quickly where you see uh sometimes it's quickly where you see uh sometimes it's quickly where you see uh sometimes it's almost like, hey, what am I not looking almost like, hey, what am I not looking almost like, hey, what am I not looking for? And then you can kind of identify for? And then you can kind of identify for? And then you can kind of identify what you are. So things like people have what you are. So things like people have what you are. So things like people have like a lot of quick hot takes. Um a lot like a lot of quick hot takes. Um a lot like a lot of quick hot takes. Um a lot of people are can be good at that. You of people are can be good at that. You of people are can be good at that. You can be blessed with that and I've been can be blessed with that and I've been can be blessed with that and I've been served by that. But someone who has a served by that. But someone who has a served by that. But someone who has a hot take on every single thing, right?

hot take on every single thing, right? hot take on every single thing, right? for doesn't offer much nuance when they for doesn't offer much nuance when they for doesn't offer much nuance when they speak. It's a really broad brush stroke speak. It's a really broad brush stroke speak. It's a really broad brush stroke and they take a lot of hard stances and they take a lot of hard stances and they take a lot of hard stances which can be very attractive, right? which can be very attractive, right? which can be very attractive, right? Like calls to like. So if they're Like calls to like. So if they're Like calls to like. So if they're speaking your language, you you want to speaking your language, you you want to speaking your language, you you want to start following them and then soon your start following them and then soon your start following them and then soon your opinions have maybe even changed a opinions have maybe even changed a opinions have maybe even changed a little bit and and you're drinking the little bit and and you're drinking the little bit and and you're drinking the juice a little bit more. Um so but just juice a little bit more. Um so but just juice a little bit more. Um so but just somebody who's like consistently really somebody who's like consistently really somebody who's like consistently really firm or speaking about every single firm or speaking about every single firm or speaking about every single thing. No one's an expert on everything thing. No one's an expert on everything thing. No one's an expert on everything and so it can be I think a kind of a red and so it can be I think a kind of a red and so it can be I think a kind of a red flag if you see someone who's like oh flag if you see someone who's like oh flag if you see someone who's like oh they just they address every single they just they address every single they just they address every single topic and that doesn't mean you have to topic and that doesn't mean you have to topic and that doesn't mean you have to unfollow them but really filtering unfollow them but really filtering unfollow them but really filtering through those kind of responses. Um through those kind of responses. Um through those kind of responses. Um those are the type of things that go those are the type of things that go those are the type of things that go viral. Those are quick hits. Those are viral. Those are quick hits. Those are viral. Those are quick hits. Those are people know that they work and that's people know that they work and that's people know that they work and that's probably what they're doing. And so just probably what they're doing. And so just probably what they're doing. And so just being aware of those things. I think being aware of those things. I think being aware of those things. I think someone who, you know, seems to be someone who, you know, seems to be someone who, you know, seems to be online all the time, you can you can online all the time, you can you can online all the time, you can you can start to say, okay, like they're start to say, okay, like they're start to say, okay, like they're probably online all the time. Um, those probably online all the time. Um, those probably online all the time. Um, those are kind of red flags. Um, I'm trying to are kind of red flags. Um, I'm trying to are kind of red flags. Um, I'm trying to think of what else. Speaking without think of what else. Speaking without think of what else. Speaking without nuance is a big one. Well, I I that's a nuance is a big one. Well, I I that's a nuance is a big one. Well, I I that's a really good direction to take it in really good direction to take it in really good direction to take it in because you are right. If you recommend because you are right. If you recommend because you are right. If you recommend somebody that can that can change, which somebody that can that can change, which somebody that can that can change, which itself is part of the challenge that itself is part of the challenge that itself is part of the challenge that we're discussing here, that the we're discussing here, that the we're discussing here, that the incentives do not necessarily push you incentives do not necessarily push you incentives do not necessarily push you toward godliness. Um, they'll often push toward godliness. Um, they'll often push toward godliness. Um, they'll often push you toward, you know, you toward, you know, you toward, you know, self-centeredness and self-centeredness and self-centeredness and criticism. This is a lot of people have criticism. This is a lot of people have criticism. This is a lot of people have talked about this, so it's not talked about this, so it's not talked about this, so it's not particularly novel, but it's still true particularly novel, but it's still true particularly novel, but it's still true today that the the way digital media

today that the the way digital media today that the the way digital media work, it it's it's not fundamentally work, it it's it's not fundamentally work, it it's it's not fundamentally different from how media have always different from how media have always different from how media have always worked, but it's worked, but it's worked, but it's supercharged that it's driving you for supercharged that it's driving you for supercharged that it's driving you for financial reasons built on psychological financial reasons built on psychological financial reasons built on psychological reasons toward fear and toward loathing. reasons toward fear and toward loathing. reasons toward fear and toward loathing. Those are the easy to access emotions Those are the easy to access emotions Those are the easy to access emotions for people who are trying to keep you for people who are trying to keep you for people who are trying to keep you engaged. And that's not unique. engaged. And that's not unique. engaged. And that's not unique. Newspapers used to do that. Cable news Newspapers used to do that. Cable news Newspapers used to do that. Cable news does that. Talk radio does that. But does that. Talk radio does that. But does that. Talk radio does that. But it's just supercharged when it comes to it's just supercharged when it comes to it's just supercharged when it comes to different social media. So the basic different social media. So the basic different social media. So the basic rule of thumb I would have is that if rule of thumb I would have is that if rule of thumb I would have is that if you are spending a lot of time with a you are spending a lot of time with a you are spending a lot of time with a Christian influencer, content creator, Christian influencer, content creator, Christian influencer, content creator, what do you want to say, and you find what do you want to say, and you find what do you want to say, and you find yourself increasingly fearful and yourself increasingly fearful and yourself increasingly fearful and angry, essentially it's not leading you angry, essentially it's not leading you angry, essentially it's not leading you toward the fruit of the spirit, uh if toward the fruit of the spirit, uh if toward the fruit of the spirit, uh if you're spending a lot of time with you're spending a lot of time with you're spending a lot of time with somebody outside the church and you're somebody outside the church and you're somebody outside the church and you're listening to them, you're watching them, listening to them, you're watching them, listening to them, you're watching them, all that kind of stuff. If instead you all that kind of stuff. If instead you all that kind of stuff. If instead you walk away full of more faith in God and walk away full of more faith in God and walk away full of more faith in God and love toward others, including your love toward others, including your love toward others, including your enemies, then that's probably a good enemies, then that's probably a good enemies, then that's probably a good sign there. But that you just got to be clear. Somebody in our council meeting clear. Somebody in our council meeting referred to Bishop Zuckerberg, he'll referred to Bishop Zuckerberg, he'll referred to Bishop Zuckerberg, he'll ordain anyone. Earlier today, I thought ordain anyone. Earlier today, I thought ordain anyone. Earlier today, I thought about that like the just a the about that like the just a the about that like the just a the incentives are not to make people deepen incentives are not to make people deepen incentives are not to make people deepen in their faith and love because that in their faith and love because that in their faith and love because that might make people actually go out there might make people actually go out there might make people actually go out there and want to do that with real people

and want to do that with real people and want to do that with real people instead of doom scrolling forever. Um instead of doom scrolling forever. Um instead of doom scrolling forever. Um let's uh let's just talk more from the let's uh let's just talk more from the let's uh let's just talk more from the from the person who's using these from the person who's using these from the person who's using these accounts, not from the somebody who's accounts, not from the somebody who's accounts, not from the somebody who's producing them. Um, but this would also producing them. Um, but this would also producing them. Um, but this would also go to people who, as a church leader, go to people who, as a church leader, go to people who, as a church leader, you might be advising others within your you might be advising others within your you might be advising others within your congregation. How would somebody know congregation. How would somebody know congregation. How would somebody know that it's time to close down their that it's time to close down their that it's time to close down their social media accounts and and turn off social media accounts and and turn off social media accounts and and turn off the podcasts? My my wife was not a kind the podcasts? My my wife was not a kind the podcasts? My my wife was not a kind of an abuser of social media, but she of an abuser of social media, but she of an abuser of social media, but she saw some stuff recently and she just saw some stuff recently and she just saw some stuff recently and she just went ahead and deleted her Facebook went ahead and deleted her Facebook went ahead and deleted her Facebook account. I was like, I mean, I did kind account. I was like, I mean, I did kind account. I was like, I mean, I did kind of earn some of our living based on of earn some of our living based on of earn some of our living based on Facebook. So, so yeah, I was like, Facebook. So, so yeah, I was like, Facebook. So, so yeah, I was like, "What? What's going on here in there?" "What? What's going on here in there?" "What? What's going on here in there?" Um, so, but she was determined to do it. Um, so, but she was determined to do it. Um, so, but she was determined to do it. She went ahead and did it. So, how would She went ahead and did it. So, how would She went ahead and did it. So, how would you know? You're just counseling you know? You're just counseling you know? You're just counseling somebody. It could be a friend, somebody somebody. It could be a friend, somebody somebody. It could be a friend, somebody in your church, and you're like, "Hey, I in your church, and you're like, "Hey, I in your church, and you're like, "Hey, I think maybe it's time to shut her down." Is it is it encouraging you to behave Is it is it encouraging you to behave foolishly? I mean I mean truthfully like foolishly? I mean I mean truthfully like foolishly? I mean I mean truthfully like do you find but things but but things on do you find but things but but things on do you find but things but but things on it's amazing I've seen a lot of people it's amazing I've seen a lot of people it's amazing I've seen a lot of people talk about this of if you did that thing talk about this of if you did that thing talk about this of if you did that thing you did on social media in real life how you did on social media in real life how you did on social media in real life how foolish it would be and yet somehow the foolish it would be and yet somehow the foolish it would be and yet somehow the deceptiveness of the medium makes you deceptiveness of the medium makes you deceptiveness of the medium makes you feel like it's not foolish for sure and feel like it's not foolish for sure and feel like it's not foolish for sure and I think it's one of the reason why I I think it's one of the reason why I I think it's one of the reason why I think it's one of the reasons why um think it's one of the reasons why um think it's one of the reasons why um when we have had to pastorally address when we have had to pastorally address when we have had to pastorally address members in our congregation that have

members in our congregation that have members in our congregation that have been foolish online they are absolutely been foolish online they are absolutely been foolish online they are absolutely stunned that we're doing it. They're stunned that we're doing it. They're stunned that we're doing it. They're shocked. I don't know if any of you have shocked. I don't know if any of you have shocked. I don't know if any of you have encountered this, but they're shocked. encountered this, but they're shocked. encountered this, but they're shocked. And they're shocked because there is And they're shocked because there is And they're shocked because there is this pretense of this is this is this pretense of this is this is this pretense of this is this is private. You know, there's this pretense private. You know, there's this pretense private. You know, there's this pretense of this is this is my space. Um and of this is this is my space. Um and of this is this is my space. Um and trying to communicate to them, no, no, trying to communicate to them, no, no, trying to communicate to them, no, no, no, you're in a public no, you're in a public no, you're in a public space. It it's it's a public space that space. It it's it's a public space that space. It it's it's a public space that maybe you accessed from the private maybe you accessed from the private maybe you accessed from the private space of your living room. Um, but when space of your living room. Um, but when space of your living room. Um, but when you stepped out there online and and you you stepped out there online and and you you stepped out there online and and you said this, you you said this publicly said this, you you said this publicly said this, you you said this publicly and and I'm not encouraging a dogmatic and and I'm not encouraging a dogmatic and and I'm not encouraging a dogmatic disciplinary spirit on this. What I'm disciplinary spirit on this. What I'm disciplinary spirit on this. What I'm saying is that if um if we as leaders as saying is that if um if we as leaders as saying is that if um if we as leaders as as we if we as brothers and sisters um as we if we as brothers and sisters um as we if we as brothers and sisters um aren't confident in a humble, curious, aren't confident in a humble, curious, aren't confident in a humble, curious, convictional approach to addressing what convictional approach to addressing what convictional approach to addressing what I think is public foolishness whenever I think is public foolishness whenever I think is public foolishness whenever foolishness is engaged in online public foolishness is engaged in online public foolishness is engaged in online public spaces on social media, uh then I don't spaces on social media, uh then I don't spaces on social media, uh then I don't know that we can expect people to begin know that we can expect people to begin know that we can expect people to begin to realter or readjust their to realter or readjust their to realter or readjust their understanding of what it means to behave understanding of what it means to behave understanding of what it means to behave with wisdom on those spaces.

with wisdom on those spaces. with wisdom on those spaces. That was imagery that came to mind when That was imagery that came to mind when That was imagery that came to mind when you're talking about acting like you're talking about acting like you're talking about acting like foolishness. It's like social media is foolishness. It's like social media is foolishness. It's like social media is often nothing more than a group of often nothing more than a group of often nothing more than a group of 17-year-old boys. What seems smart to 17-year-old boys. What seems smart to 17-year-old boys. What seems smart to those 17-year-old boys is not don't those 17-year-old boys is not don't those 17-year-old boys is not don't trust them telling you to do that. trust them telling you to do that. trust them telling you to do that. That's not good. Um Ruth, how would you That's not good. Um Ruth, how would you That's not good. Um Ruth, how would you know if you you're talking to somebody know if you you're talking to somebody know if you you're talking to somebody in that situation how to counsel them? in that situation how to counsel them? in that situation how to counsel them? You know, I think um we're we've all You know, I think um we're we've all You know, I think um we're we've all said before that we're idol fac, you said before that we're idol fac, you said before that we're idol fac, you know, we're made to treasure the Lord know, we're made to treasure the Lord know, we're made to treasure the Lord and and we'll have counterfeits all the and and we'll have counterfeits all the and and we'll have counterfeits all the time. And so it's it's whether I think time. And so it's it's whether I think time. And so it's it's whether I think it's whether or not we can look at this it's whether or not we can look at this it's whether or not we can look at this thing that we're using as a tool. Can it thing that we're using as a tool. Can it thing that we're using as a tool. Can it cause me to um desire more discipline, cause me to um desire more discipline, cause me to um desire more discipline, desire more desire more desire more um even desire boundaries? Like if I'm um even desire boundaries? Like if I'm um even desire boundaries? Like if I'm desiring boundaries, desiring more desiring boundaries, desiring more desiring boundaries, desiring more discipline and I'm using it in a discipline and I'm using it in a discipline and I'm using it in a measured way, um it doesn't mean that measured way, um it doesn't mean that measured way, um it doesn't mean that that's a green light, but I think it is that's a green light, but I think it is that's a green light, but I think it is an opportunity to say, okay, I'm I'm an opportunity to say, okay, I'm I'm an opportunity to say, okay, I'm I'm working towards greater holiness and working towards greater holiness and working towards greater holiness and this tool is part of what I'm using to this tool is part of what I'm using to this tool is part of what I'm using to do the things that God's called me to do the things that God's called me to do the things that God's called me to do. But if I'm willing to set aside do. But if I'm willing to set aside do. But if I'm willing to set aside boundaries or discernment, if that boundaries or discernment, if that boundaries or discernment, if that explore page takes me down rabbit trails explore page takes me down rabbit trails explore page takes me down rabbit trails that lead me somewhere where I really that lead me somewhere where I really that lead me somewhere where I really shouldn't be, if that thing is shouldn't be, if that thing is shouldn't be, if that thing is happening, if two hours go by and you're happening, if two hours go by and you're happening, if two hours go by and you're looking at cat videos and you don't know looking at cat videos and you don't know looking at cat videos and you don't know why you're not making your kids dinner, why you're not making your kids dinner, why you're not making your kids dinner, then there's a problem, right? And then then there's a problem, right? And then then there's a problem, right? And then you probably should shut down your you probably should shut down your you probably should shut down your podcast. Just kidding. I mean, you podcast. Just kidding. I mean, you podcast. Just kidding. I mean, you should probably shut things down if should probably shut things down if should probably shut things down if you're literally not doing what the go

you're literally not doing what the go you're literally not doing what the go what the Lord's given you to steward and what the Lord's given you to steward and what the Lord's given you to steward and instead you're treasuring your even if instead you're treasuring your even if instead you're treasuring your even if it's not like this ugly thing, but it's it's not like this ugly thing, but it's it's not like this ugly thing, but it's treasuring comfort or treasuring treasuring comfort or treasuring treasuring comfort or treasuring laziness or treasuring some sense of laziness or treasuring some sense of laziness or treasuring some sense of like I just want to numb myself out like I just want to numb myself out like I just want to numb myself out because I've had a hard day. You know, because I've had a hard day. You know, because I've had a hard day. You know, it used to be, oh, I just need Jesus and it used to be, oh, I just need Jesus and it used to be, oh, I just need Jesus and a glass of wine, but now it's like Jesus a glass of wine, but now it's like Jesus a glass of wine, but now it's like Jesus and a million hours of doom scrolling, and a million hours of doom scrolling, and a million hours of doom scrolling, right? So, you know, I think those are right? So, you know, I think those are right? So, you know, I think those are good ways to say like is am I willing to good ways to say like is am I willing to good ways to say like is am I willing to lay this down because I love Christ or lay this down because I love Christ or lay this down because I love Christ or am I like no don't pry it from my hands, am I like no don't pry it from my hands, am I like no don't pry it from my hands, you know, kind of thing. Does anybody you know, kind of thing. Does anybody you know, kind of thing. Does anybody else get their screen time updates from else get their screen time updates from else get their screen time updates from their phone on Sundays? That's not good. Oh man, I Sundays? That's not good. Oh man, I looked I looked at mine on on Sunday, looked I looked at mine on on Sunday, looked I looked at mine on on Sunday, but it was weighed down. And I thought, but it was weighed down. And I thought, but it was weighed down. And I thought, huh, that might have been why I read huh, that might have been why I read huh, that might have been why I read three books last week. three books last week. three books last week. like I was wondering why I wasn't making like I was wondering why I wasn't making like I was wondering why I wasn't making much progress through these books. much progress through these books. much progress through these books. There's too much too much of that. Uh There's too much too much of that. Uh There's too much too much of that. Uh Laura, what do you how would you counsel Laura, what do you how would you counsel Laura, what do you how would you counsel somebody in that situation? How would somebody in that situation? How would somebody in that situation? How would they know when to shut down? By the way, they know when to shut down? By the way, they know when to shut down? By the way, Andy Crouch does have a kind of a rule Andy Crouch does have a kind of a rule Andy Crouch does have a kind of a rule of thumb of at least what is it one hour of thumb of at least what is it one hour of thumb of at least what is it one hour a day, one day a week, one week out of a day, one day a week, one week out of a day, one day a week, one week out of the year where you're just off social the year where you're just off social the year where you're just off social media or things like or your phone or media or things like or your phone or media or things like or your phone or something like that all the time. If you something like that all the time. If you something like that all the time. If you can do that, that's kind of a good rule can do that, that's kind of a good rule can do that, that's kind of a good rule of thumb. But what else would you say?

of thumb. But what else would you say? of thumb. But what else would you say? How would you know? Yeah, as as Ruth was How would you know? Yeah, as as Ruth was How would you know? Yeah, as as Ruth was talking, I was literally thinking it is talking, I was literally thinking it is talking, I was literally thinking it is never a bad day to take a social media never a bad day to take a social media never a bad day to take a social media fast. And I think a lot of us feel like, fast. And I think a lot of us feel like, fast. And I think a lot of us feel like, well, if I leave the platform, it's like well, if I leave the platform, it's like well, if I leave the platform, it's like I'm gone forever and I just can't ever I'm gone forever and I just can't ever I'm gone forever and I just can't ever do that. And so, just give yourself I do that. And so, just give yourself I do that. And so, just give yourself I would recommend at least 30-day fast. would recommend at least 30-day fast. would recommend at least 30-day fast. Science proves it takes 30 days to break Science proves it takes 30 days to break Science proves it takes 30 days to break a habit. You got to detox. Like, you a habit. You got to detox. Like, you a habit. You got to detox. Like, you will have withdrawal syn symptoms. Like, will have withdrawal syn symptoms. Like, will have withdrawal syn symptoms. Like, it is a very real thing. Like, social it is a very real thing. Like, social it is a very real thing. Like, social media is rewiring your brain. There's a media is rewiring your brain. There's a media is rewiring your brain. There's a lot of stuff out there about it. So go lot of stuff out there about it. So go lot of stuff out there about it. So go Google it cuz we don't have time to get Google it cuz we don't have time to get Google it cuz we don't have time to get into it today. But give it 30 30 days into it today. But give it 30 30 days into it today. But give it 30 30 days and just see what happens and see if hey and just see what happens and see if hey and just see what happens and see if hey is this a place that I desire to return is this a place that I desire to return is this a place that I desire to return to and if I'm going to do that then hey to and if I'm going to do that then hey to and if I'm going to do that then hey here's some rules and some boundaries here's some rules and some boundaries here's some rules and some boundaries that I can put around it or maybe you'll that I can put around it or maybe you'll that I can put around it or maybe you'll find like wow I actually did experience find like wow I actually did experience find like wow I actually did experience a lot less anxiety and fear and I slept a lot less anxiety and fear and I slept a lot less anxiety and fear and I slept better and I had richer conversations. I better and I had richer conversations. I better and I had richer conversations. I read a million books. Yeah. So that read a million books. Yeah. So that read a million books. Yeah. So that would just be like a practical thing. would just be like a practical thing. would just be like a practical thing. But yeah I mean I do think a lot of it But yeah I mean I do think a lot of it But yeah I mean I do think a lot of it um for me I often notice it in my off um for me I often notice it in my off um for me I often notice it in my off time away from the phone. So, um, if I time away from the phone. So, um, if I time away from the phone. So, um, if I am more irritable with my kids, a lot of am more irritable with my kids, a lot of am more irritable with my kids, a lot of times that tracks back to maybe times that tracks back to maybe times that tracks back to maybe something that I read online that is something that I read online that is something that I read online that is causing fear or anxiety or something bad causing fear or anxiety or something bad causing fear or anxiety or something bad that happened. It's amazing how long it that happened. It's amazing how long it that happened. It's amazing how long it took for me to realize that that was the took for me to realize that that was the took for me to realize that that was the case. I don't think it took my wife that case. I don't think it took my wife that case. I don't think it took my wife that long, but it took me a long time to long, but it took me a long time to long, but it took me a long time to realize, oh, that's why I snapped at my realize, oh, that's why I snapped at my realize, oh, that's why I snapped at my kids cuz I just saw that thing on social kids cuz I just saw that thing on social kids cuz I just saw that thing on social media. Totally. Yes. Or as a content media. Totally. Yes. Or as a content media. Totally. Yes. Or as a content creator, if you're like, if your worth creator, if you're like, if your worth creator, if you're like, if your worth and identity is getting put in what you and identity is getting put in what you and identity is getting put in what you put out there and no one's responding put out there and no one's responding put out there and no one's responding and now you're bummed and now you have a and now you're bummed and now you have a and now you're bummed and now you have a bad evening, right? Like, so looking at bad evening, right? Like, so looking at bad evening, right? Like, so looking at how are you feeling in that time away, how are you feeling in that time away, how are you feeling in that time away, which is why I recommend that 30-day

which is why I recommend that 30-day which is why I recommend that 30-day fast because I think it gives you ample fast because I think it gives you ample fast because I think it gives you ample opportunity to begin to evaluate, oh, my opportunity to begin to evaluate, oh, my opportunity to begin to evaluate, oh, my mind is clearer. My attitude is more mind is clearer. My attitude is more mind is clearer. My attitude is more positive. It it can be sometimes hard to positive. It it can be sometimes hard to positive. It it can be sometimes hard to know when you're in the thick of it, but know when you're in the thick of it, but know when you're in the thick of it, but then when you start to lift that fog, then when you start to lift that fog, then when you start to lift that fog, you realize, oh, I'm actually kind of a you realize, oh, I'm actually kind of a you realize, oh, I'm actually kind of a different person without any of these different person without any of these different person without any of these platforms. Yeah. Can I just add to this platforms. Yeah. Can I just add to this platforms. Yeah. Can I just add to this if for church leaders in particular? I if for church leaders in particular? I if for church leaders in particular? I think that's really well said, Laura. Um think that's really well said, Laura. Um think that's really well said, Laura. Um I think uh I felt we planted seven years I think uh I felt we planted seven years I think uh I felt we planted seven years ago um and we were in an area uh just an ago um and we were in an area uh just an ago um and we were in an area uh just an area of church life um where the church area of church life um where the church area of church life um where the church culture there's just a lot of I felt culture there's just a lot of I felt culture there's just a lot of I felt like a lot of cross pressure that we like a lot of cross pressure that we like a lot of cross pressure that we needed to like really get in the game needed to like really get in the game needed to like really get in the game when it came to digital and social media when it came to digital and social media when it came to digital and social media ministry and I've just felt like oh if ministry and I've just felt like oh if ministry and I've just felt like oh if we're not doing this we're not really we're not doing this we're not really we're not doing this we're not really doing what we're supposed to be doing doing what we're supposed to be doing doing what we're supposed to be doing and maybe that's kind of where you're at and maybe that's kind of where you're at and maybe that's kind of where you're at too. I would just say, and this isn't a too. I would just say, and this isn't a too. I would just say, and this isn't a forever decision we've made, but we just forever decision we've made, but we just forever decision we've made, but we just made a decision that's just actually not made a decision that's just actually not made a decision that's just actually not a game that we're going to be in. And a game that we're going to be in. And a game that we're going to be in. And you don't have to be in that game. I you don't have to be in that game. I you don't have to be in that game. I just want to give you the liberation just want to give you the liberation just want to give you the liberation freedom. I think that if you really want freedom. I think that if you really want freedom. I think that if you really want to get into the digital ministry space to get into the digital ministry space to get into the digital ministry space for your church or your ministry, you for your church or your ministry, you for your church or your ministry, you should really ask the question of Lord, should really ask the question of Lord, should really ask the question of Lord, are you calling us to go here? Um, I are you calling us to go here? Um, I are you calling us to go here? Um, I think we got to see it as a landscape think we got to see it as a landscape think we got to see it as a landscape where spiritual warfare is happening. It where spiritual warfare is happening. It where spiritual warfare is happening. It is real. I think rather than churches is real. I think rather than churches is real. I think rather than churches thinking how to strat op the whole thinking how to strat op the whole thinking how to strat op the whole thing, I think they should really ask thing, I think they should really ask thing, I think they should really ask the Lord, is this a space we need to be the Lord, is this a space we need to be the Lord, is this a space we need to be in? Um I don't want to overspiritualize in? Um I don't want to overspiritualize in? Um I don't want to overspiritualize that. I I mean maybe that seems just too that. I I mean maybe that seems just too that. I I mean maybe that seems just too simplistic, but I think that we I think simplistic, but I think that we I think simplistic, but I think that we I think that uh we do need to have um an honest that uh we do need to have um an honest that uh we do need to have um an honest assessment. Is this really a part of assessment. Is this really a part of assessment. Is this really a part of what the Lord is calling our church or what the Lord is calling our church or what the Lord is calling our church or me to be in because it is a place that's

me to be in because it is a place that's me to be in because it is a place that's really fraught with spiritual really fraught with spiritual really fraught with spiritual difficulties. And I think churches and difficulties. And I think churches and difficulties. And I think churches and ministries and people need to enter in ministries and people need to enter in ministries and people need to enter in with a really soberminded approach to with a really soberminded approach to with a really soberminded approach to this landscape because I think it's this landscape because I think it's this landscape because I think it's charged with uh not just good things and charged with uh not just good things and charged with uh not just good things and good opportunities but some some real good opportunities but some some real good opportunities but some some real struggles. struggles. struggles. Well, let's end with we just have three Well, let's end with we just have three Well, let's end with we just have three minutes here so there be shorter answers minutes here so there be shorter answers minutes here so there be shorter answers but let's just any I think Kyle you but let's just any I think Kyle you but let's just any I think Kyle you really brought us into that last really brought us into that last really brought us into that last question of there will be some people question of there will be some people question of there will be some people here that the Lord maybe is calling more here that the Lord maybe is calling more here that the Lord maybe is calling more toward that broader broader ministry. toward that broader broader ministry. toward that broader broader ministry. They've looked up to some of our They've looked up to some of our They've looked up to some of our panelists. Maybe that's why you're here. panelists. Maybe that's why you're here. panelists. Maybe that's why you're here. What uh quick word would you have for What uh quick word would you have for What uh quick word would you have for them in entering that space? Let's start them in entering that space? Let's start them in entering that space? Let's start with you, Ruth. Um I would say make your with you, Ruth. Um I would say make your with you, Ruth. Um I would say make your real life so treasured and so rich that real life so treasured and so rich that real life so treasured and so rich that everything you put out online is an everything you put out online is an everything you put out online is an overflow of the life you actually live. overflow of the life you actually live. overflow of the life you actually live. That's good. Kyle, anything you want to That's good. Kyle, anything you want to That's good. Kyle, anything you want to add to what you just said? Root yourself add to what you just said? Root yourself add to what you just said? Root yourself in a faithful church. Submit to godly in a faithful church. Submit to godly in a faithful church. Submit to godly elders. Okay. Yeah. Uh God calls you to elders. Okay. Yeah. Uh God calls you to elders. Okay. Yeah. Uh God calls you to the work, not to the results. It's not the work, not to the results. It's not the work, not to the results. It's not promised that you'll grow even if you promised that you'll grow even if you promised that you'll grow even if you are faithful, but you should still do are faithful, but you should still do are faithful, but you should still do it.

it. it. Well, and with the way social media Well, and with the way social media Well, and with the way social media works, you can't really game the system. works, you can't really game the system. works, you can't really game the system. It it changes too often. It's like It it changes too often. It's like It it changes too often. It's like playing the lottery. The odds are just playing the lottery. The odds are just playing the lottery. The odds are just not in your favor. Um, but second, if not in your favor. Um, but second, if not in your favor. Um, but second, if you um if you really do try to game the you um if you really do try to game the you um if you really do try to game the system, you'll probably lose your soul system, you'll probably lose your soul system, you'll probably lose your soul in the process. And I don't think that's in the process. And I don't think that's in the process. And I don't think that's what we want to hear. So, uh, well, I'm what we want to hear. So, uh, well, I'm what we want to hear. So, uh, well, I'm going to pray and then we'll thank our going to pray and then we'll thank our going to pray and then we'll thank our panelists. Okay, let's panelists. Okay, let's panelists. Okay, let's pray. God, you've given us these pray. God, you've given us these pray. God, you've given us these technological tools made by human hands technological tools made by human hands technological tools made by human hands so that we can use them for your glory. so that we can use them for your glory. so that we can use them for your glory. But Lord, we need your wisdom to be able But Lord, we need your wisdom to be able But Lord, we need your wisdom to be able to use them well because we are in our to use them well because we are in our to use them well because we are in our sinful way as we're prone to not as sinful way as we're prone to not as sinful way as we're prone to not as consumers and producers to not use them consumers and producers to not use them consumers and producers to not use them well. So help Lord help us glorify you well. So help Lord help us glorify you well. So help Lord help us glorify you in our bodies and whatever we turn our in our bodies and whatever we turn our in our bodies and whatever we turn our attention to. Lord help our churches attention to. Lord help our churches attention to. Lord help our churches amid the spiritual attack that we just amid the spiritual attack that we just amid the spiritual attack that we just talked about here. The attack that is so talked about here. The attack that is so talked about here. The attack that is so evident in so many different ways as we evident in so many different ways as we evident in so many different ways as we look around. Lord Jesus help us to be look around. Lord Jesus help us to be look around. Lord Jesus help us to be found faithful and to be wise as we found faithful and to be wise as we found faithful and to be wise as we engage these these different media. We engage these these different media. We engage these these different media. We need your help Lord. We know that by need your help Lord. We know that by need your help Lord. We know that by your spirit that help is promised and your spirit that help is promised and your spirit that help is promised and assured to us. In Jesus name we pray.

assured to us. In Jesus name we pray. assured to us. In Jesus name we pray. Amen. St. Thanks guys.